365-367 Queen Street West (Silver Snail site, 3s, Montgomery Sisam)

[junctionist]

but is there a good collection of buildings? Maybe I am not artistic enough, but Queen W looks extremely gritty and most buildings are not in good shape. It is a bit surprising as it is supposed to be the no 1 shopping destination in Toronto.

It's true that many of the buildings presently look gritty (certainly not all of them), but I think that most are restorable. In terms of design quality, the often exuberant Victorian architecture with prominent cornices, ornamental terracotta panels, arched windows, and turrets constitutes a great collection of buildings. Unfortunately, some of these details are in bad shape or have been removed, but these buildings are restorable. A major problem is that the overhead wires along the sides of the street and ugly wooden poles are off-putting to many people, and they consequently don't even look closely at the great buildings on Queen Street West in this atmosphere of shabbiness.

 

[W. K. Lis]

its too HIGH! cut it down to 1 storey!

One story buildings do not belong along a transit route of any kind. Bus routes should be minimum two stories, streetcar routes should be a minimum of three stories, LRT routes should be more than three but under ten, while heavy rail routes (subway) should be more than ten.

 

[junctionist]

One story buildings do not belong along a transit route of any kind. Bus routes should be minimum two stories, streetcar routes should be a minimum of three stories, LRT routes should be more than three but under ten, while heavy rail routes (subway) should be more than ten.

These suggestions strike me as overgeneralizing. A busy retail area comprised of only one storey buildings, for instance, can generate adequate ridership for a bus route. A mix of bungalows, one storey strip malls, and apartment buildings sustains suburban Toronto bus routes--some of which will soon be upgraded to LRT. An area with 3-7 storey buildings could be densely populated; there are neighbourhoods in old Toronto like along Queen West, Spadina, and in a part of The Junction for instance that have few or no buildings above ten storeys and a high population density that can provide the ridership for a subway. There are thousands of historic cities in the world with this kind of built form.

 

[balenciaga]

An area with 3-7 storey buildings could be densely populated; there are neighbourhoods in old Toronto like along Queen West, Spadina, and in a part of The Junction for instance that have few or no buildings above ten storeys and a high population density that can provide the ridership for a subway. There are thousands of historic cities in the world with this kind of built form.

Queen st West of St Patrick is more like 1-3 stories mostly, which is insane for a downtown retail street.
Ideally I prefer it be 3-7 storey buildings like you said, but it is far from reality.

 

[urbandreamer]

3 November 2012: Even the street kids were saying it was a __________.

 

[Towered]

Yes, just what Queen West needs more of - corporate retail chains.

 

[taal]

Yes, just what Queen West needs more of - corporate retail chains.

Yes why not ?!

Now if this were west of Spadina, I wouldn't like it, but I've always considered the stretch to the east to be more corporate in nature. And seriously, what exactly is wrong with that ? Sure, its essentially on outdoor mall.

To the west has many more independent outlets, and so far that hasn't changed too much (though in terms of food it does have a more corporate feel now).

 

[Lenser]

You have to go all the way back to the 70s and 80s if you wanted to see the stretch of Queen between University and Spadina look anything but corporate.

 

[taal]

People always say this ... but I love Queen W the way it (the way it is today that is) ... boy has it changed in the last 5 years though, I'd say just about the entire stretch all the way to Ossington has undergone gentrification (this of course includes the camh!).

It was so busy this weekend, such a mix as well (I don't think you'll find this anywhere else in Toronto), so many families, and Yonger folks all mixed in together. Also, wouldn't surprise me of this stretch of Queen was the busiest street throughout downtown (pedestrian wise that is ... yes taken as a whole that is, I'm sure Y&D, the intersection, is busier).

Yes many love the arts scene, but others don't, and for all the Toronto bashing that goes on, what it does well, is offer completely different areas (different in the composition of the stores, the people, the overall feel) all contained downtown (though 'downtown' in this context is a fairly large area), you don't find this to the same degree in most North American cities (not starting debate, yes it exists elsewhere as well ...). Taking it further, I find most folks who visit Toronto (and not for the typical tourist scene) say this is by far and large what makes Toronto so interesting / compelling.


As a side note, visited the Loblaws on portland for the first time, its nice as far as grocery stores goes (its not as nice as longos in maple leaf square) but its very similar to the one at MLG. Has some nice views as well. Its interesting seeing this part of Toronto from 3rd or 4th floor as opposed to the typical shots which are from the 10/20+ story of a condo / office. Very difference perspective.

 

[junctionist]

I'm fine with the chain retail on that stretch of Queen from University to Spadina. What I don't like is the "outdoor mall" situation where instead of a mix of uses happening, you get corporate chains in two-storey buildings without apartments or condos on top. That kind of monoculture can ultimately result in a dull stretch of street, especially in the evening when the stores close, leaving no other uses to animate the street. It's not there yet, but it would be unfortunate if that were its fate as more and more chains arrive.

 

[adHominem]

That kind of monoculture can ultimately result in a dull stretch of street, especially in the evening when the stores close, leaving no other uses to animate the street.

I saw a certain amount of this, actually, when working at Queen & John in the early 2000s. Obviously the stretch of Queen was long since filled with chains by that point, but there was still a definite progression: as more chains pushed out more indies, the evening shift at our shop became more troublesome (female staff members in particular felt less safe, and reported more harassment). I don't know if it was just an 'eyes on the street' thing or what, but we used to joke that as the nabe became more banal during the day, it got worse at night.

 

[taal]

I saw a certain amount of this, actually, when working at Queen & John in the early 2000s. Obviously the stretch of Queen was long since filled with chains by that point, but there was still a definite progression: as more chains pushed out more indies, the evening shift at our shop became more troublesome (female staff members in particular felt less safe, and reported more harassment). I don't know if it was just an 'eyes on the street' thing or what, but we used to joke that as the nabe became more banal during the day, it got worse at night.

hmm, maybe that's why the street to the west of Spadina is that much more interesting ... a lot more variety, and its quite busy at night as well.

 

[androiduk]

 

[urbandreamer]

Perfect spot for a gorgeous 8s infill project--perhaps their original intent?

 

[AlbertC]

Design by Montgomery Sisam.

Also with reminder of that horrendous EIFS hackjob on the Roots building next doors. I'm assuming that site has been absorbed by this development, with floorplates combined?

http://www.montgomerysisam.com/projects/365-367-queen-street-west