215 Lake Shore East (Greenland) - Real Estate -

Does anyone know what our options are at this point? Is it a good idea to start inquiring about getting our $ out with legal guidance?
 
Fanny Sie said:
Does anyone know what our options are at this point? Is it a good idea to start inquiring about getting our $ out with legal guidance?
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I'm not sure if that option or any other similar option would be available at this point. The contract we signed has so many fine prints that I'm just getting to read them now. If you would like to speak with a litigation lawyer please be my guest. Talking to some people with similar past experience I think we just need to wait until the builder makes its move. Possibly faulting on the contract or asking for certain price increase on top of the contract. They might bring the option of canceling the contract and return our money with no interest if we do not accept the higher suggested prices. Let's see. Do we have a lawyer in here who could shine some light on the situation?
 
Fanny Sie said:
Does anyone know what our options are at this point? Is it a good idea to start inquiring about getting our $ out with legal guidance?
Click to expand...
Options for purchasers are limited but you can imagine how things will develop:
  • Case A: Greenland got all the permits and approvals eventually, the condo gets fully constructed and occupied (but significant delayed).
  • Case B: Greenland asked for higher prices and whoever disagree got cancellation on their APS, while complaints can be made against Greenland through HCRA, Adi Group case was a typical example that the developer pay fine ($60k) to HCRA and fractional compensation to all purchasers (around $2M for all). The LAT decision can be found here: https://obd.hcraontario.ca/static/media/13954.NHCLA.DEC.fdbb8ef9.pdf
  • Case C: Greenland failed to get all the permits and approvals then purchasers wait until a date to apply for refund of their deposit from Harris Sheaffer LLP (trust), while the previous Covid 19 added more uncertainties to this case and I believe the original 2026 date will be postponed to a later date.
  • Case D: Greenland sold their project including APS to a new developer and the company usually asking for more similar to Case B.
 
Northern Light said:
This is not the shoring permit for the foundation.

This is a permit related to soil remediation. Not the same. This work has been completed, as can be seen by the use of the term 'Inspection' in the Status.
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In fairness, many developers apply for "soil remediation permits' long before they have all the right paperwork for excavation ones. This is legal and allows them to do some excavation before all their ducks are lined up. Though Greenland did excavate a new pond, their ducks never flew!
 
Hi all, I didn't know there was whatsapp group. I'd love to join the group too. I too am an owner of a unit. How can I join it?
Thanks in advance.
 
Sorry, it’s a bit complicated and confusing to get through all this thread…
Could anyone tell me what could we expect in the situation with the Lakeside residence project?
It appears that it will inevitably be terminated. Is it correct (or most likely)?
If so, when could we expect to get our deposits back? The contract states that the latest date of closing is Apr 2027. Is it expected that they would keep the money until the very possible date? Or is it in their interest to release the funds sooner?
By the rule they are supposed to pay some interest on the deposits. If I understand it correctly, the interest is calculated as ‘prime minus 2%’. Is this correct?
Sorry, too many questions, but I think it is important.
I appreciate any suggestions.
Thank you!
 
MarkDv said:
Sorry, it’s a bit complicated and confusing to get through all this thread…
Could anyone tell me what could we expect in the situation with the Lakeside residence project?
It appears that it will inevitably be terminated. Is it correct (or most likely)?
If so, when could we expect to get our deposits back? The contract states that the latest date of closing is Apr 2027. Is it expected that they would keep the money until the very possible date? Or is it in their interest to release the funds sooner?
By the rule they are supposed to pay some interest on the deposits. If I understand it correctly, the interest is calculated as ‘prime minus 2%’. Is this correct?
Sorry, too many questions, but I think it is important.
I appreciate any suggestions.
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Ok, I had posted this in a different thread and it was then transferred to here.
I read all these and now have just one question: if that Whatsapp group which many people had joined is alive and active and I should join it as well or it is OK to look for any updates about the matter in this thread.
Please let me know.
Thank you!
 
MarkDv said:
Ok, I had posted this in a different thread and it was then transferred to here.
I read all these and now have just one question: if that Whatsapp group which many people had joined is alive and active and I should join it as well or it is OK to look for any updates about the matter in this thread.
Please let me know.
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Good questions, some of my thoughts below posted earlier.
I would hope it is Case A.

Whistleblower said:
Options for purchasers are limited but you can imagine how things will develop:
  • Case A: Greenland got all the permits and approvals eventually, the condo gets fully constructed and occupied (but significant delayed).
  • Case B: Greenland asked for higher prices and whoever disagree got cancellation on their APS, while complaints can be made against Greenland through HCRA, Adi Group case was a typical example that the developer pay fine ($60k) to HCRA and fractional compensation to all purchasers (around $2M for all). The LAT decision can be found here: https://obd.hcraontario.ca/static/media/13954.NHCLA.DEC.fdbb8ef9.pdf
  • Case C: Greenland failed to get all the permits and approvals then purchasers wait until a date to apply for refund of their deposit from Harris Sheaffer LLP (trust), while the previous Covid 19 added more uncertainties to this case and I believe the original 2026 date will be postponed to a later date.
  • Case D: Greenland sold their project including APS to a new developer and the company usually asking for more similar to Case B.
Click to expand...

MarkDv said:
If so, when could we expect to get our deposits back? The contract states that the latest date of closing is Apr 2027. Is it expected that they would keep the money until the very possible date? Or is it in their interest to release the funds sooner?
Click to expand...
My contract stated same as yours, April 2027. However, the Covid - 19 outbreak back in March 17 2020 (announcement date by Gov. of ON) had given most developer a natural excuse to delay this date, as Covid-19 is classified as "force majeure" event.

I am thinking this date is delayed accordingly.
Actual date might be April 2027 + days declared as "Pandemic" (March 17, 2020 - April 27, 2022, date Gov. of ON lifted all restrictions) = somewhere in May 2029 (too bad, hope I am wrong).

There is no way deposits can be returned before this date, unless the developer terminate at their end first.

As for the interest on the deposit we made, the province made some changes in 2022 to give purchaser higher rates on their deposits but then revoked again, if I am not mistaken - the rate, according to the law is based on two (2) different period of time, throughout the year, as ruled the following:

Condominium Act, 1998, S.O. 1998, c. 19
19.1.(3) The prescribed rate of interest for the purpose of subsection 82 (7) of the Act shall be,
(a) for the period from April 1 to September 30 of each year, the policy interest rate at the end of March 31 of that year; and
(b) for the period from October 1 of each year to March 31 in the following year, the policy interest rate at the end of September 30 immediately before that October. O. Reg. 504/22, s. 2.

Bank of Canada has raised rates many times in 2022 and slightly in 2023 (last March 8 meeting they stopped), therefore purchasers get lower interest rate before and higher interest rate now, subject to change, same as how banks charged on mortgage variable rates.​

 
Whistleblower, thanks for your reply!
I forgot to mention that I also contacted Greenland by email and phone and they finally replied at my inquiry. It seems to be a little different from what everybody here was posting here before
Since construction is on hold at the moment, the final closing is not likely to happen in 24 months as an estimation. Thank you.
I think we can see here a cue that it will be terminated.
I’m really interested in who is really paying interest on returning deposits in case of the project cancellation - the developer from their pockets or the bank where deposits were kept.
However I also do realize that this interest is relatively small money compared to other expenses they have on the ‘project on hold’ and they may not even think about it.
I totally agree with that:
There is no way deposits can be returned before this date, unless the developer terminate at their end first.
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But I really doubt that it is in their interest to keep the project on hold (and as such our money) as long as possible without moving in any direction.
Any thoughts?
 
MarkDv said:
And also: what is

?
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In simple term, it is the central bank's base rate, commercial bank (rbc, td, etc.) charge a markup on top of that rate. US Federal Reserve is doing it and BoC doing it too to prevent CAD collapsing (slightly already, as there is a 25bp difference)

MarkDv said:
I’m really interested in who is really paying interest on returning deposits in case of the project cancellation - the developer from their pockets or the bank where deposits were kept.
Click to expand...
The trust holding it will pay the interest, if I am not mistaken. In this case - Harris Sheaffer LLP.
and
Of course, I am sure they use those deposits for investment (buy securities/bonds) and earned more on their side, too.

MarkDv said:
But I really doubt that it is in their interest to keep the project on hold (and as such our money) as long as possible without moving in any direction.
Any thoughts?
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I doubt they have approvals, as a result - they can't construct or to receive a stop work order.
or
They wanna wait for a lower construction loan rate, with prime 4.5% nowadays, they pay a lot more.
e.g: 4.5% + markup vs 1.3% + markup is much more...
plus
Greenland's parenting company - Greenland holding groups in China really suffered from massive debt on book and bad bond rating, banks are all being careful to loan money to them.
 
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