204 Beech - A Family's Battle to Build a Home

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I do find it interesting that they've decided to force the issue by removing the very hertiage features that make it worthwhile - a similiar tactic as the other recent example in the Spadina/Davenport area.

AoD

 

[AGTO]

a supportive Council,

they have a very supportive council member....so supportive that she went behind the homeowners backs to try and screw them over.
Ms bussins comment about the homeowner in her letter is not very professional at all.

The homeowner has acted within the laws, and has done nothing wrong. If you don' tlike the laws as they stand now, do something to change them....and not at the last minute, when it suits your personal agenda.

 

[Rebecca - HT]

AGTO, your ignorance about planning in general and how the City works does nothing for your argument.

What the Councillor did wasn't "unfair" or "behind their backs" - it is under the Ontario Heritage Act that a home like this be evaluated before any planning decisions are made. It's the LAW and the only chance that the City's heritage perservation services has to determine the heritage value of the home. Councillors do this all the time, and it is under their elected mandate. The only difference is this woman's disability was made an issue, when it has nothing to do whatsoever with the heritage value of this home.

The current actions of the owners show a complete lack of respect for the process and speak more loudly to me than the Councillor doing due diligence.

 

[AGTO]

Rebecca, your ignorance of property laws does absolutely nothing for your argument and simply paints you as an armchair crusader with no regard for human rights...not something to be proud of.

The current actions of the owners show a complete lack of respect for the process and speak more loudly to me than the Councillor doing due diligence.

That's because you're heavily biased, and ignorant of the laws of this city....basically you didn't get your way, so you came out on the attack.

people like you and your disgusting crusades deserve no respect.

 

[Rebecca - HT]

Here's the situation. Heritage Preservation Services has a smallish staff, but only one person produces the reports and research for listing or designation. These reports are comprehensive and require multiple concrete sources and is defined under a set of heritage criteria. An "old" building is simply not reason enough to be considered - is it characteristic of the neighbourhood, unique, built by an architect with a style that defined our neighbourhoods, was the site of an important event, person, etc.

The recommendations come from a variety of sources - namely citizens, community groups or the Councillors themselves. A good Councillor will request that HPS look into a report, especially if that building is at risk. Some are fast-tracked due to the urgency, but that means others get delayed.

That staff member will produce the report which is forwarded to the Perservation Board for that Community Council area. The Preservation will take the information from the report under consideration and make a recommendation which is voted on by the board. If it's a yes for listing or designation, it wll go to the Community Council area (Toronto & East York, North York, Scarbrough, Etobicoke). They vote on it and if it's successful it goes to full Council. It takes a while to go through this process.

There are 8,000 plus properties that are listed and designated right now and that is by no means an accurate snapshot of what we have in the city. For instance, buildings that aren't designated in the city right now because the backlog include Queen's Park, the oldest storefronts in the city (along King east of Jarvis), Campbell House and Mackenzie House.

No paperwork is unfinished, it's the sheer number of heritage properties in this city to be recorded and protected. If you do the math, you can see why there is a two-year backlog.

And just because a property doesn't have this status does not mean it won't be considered for the Inventory or designated in future, because of this backlog.

Imagine if we were able to be proactive about the Inventory - developers, owners and everyone would be clear on its status, it would involve less resources and less visits to the OMB.

 

[adma]

That's because you're heavily biased, and ignorant of the laws of this city....basically you didn't get your way, so you came out on the attack.

people like you and your disgusting crusades deserve no respect.

"The laws of this city" aren't written in stone, you know--certain incidents like this one and the one in Austin Terrace highlight their eternal need for fine-tuning and even change. Once upon a time, "the laws of this city" didn't allow even a fraction of the heritage protection we have now. They also didn't allow for today's standards of gender equality, ethnic/racial/LGBT tolerance, etc. And those on the wrong side of those arguments were prone to spitting at variations on the proverbial "people like you and your disgusting crusades", too...

 

[dob467]

Hey AGTO - what's the human right angle here?

 

[AGTO]

-certain incidents like this one and the one in Austin Terrace highlight their eternal need for fine-tuning and even change.

Austin Terrace was almost a year ago....doesn't seem like anyone cared enough to change the legislation.

It appears that people only 'care' when it's presented to them....and if it involves people with money....it's jealousy disguised as heritage preservation.

"people like you and your disgusting crusades", too...

weak.

 

[Mapleson]

"The laws of this city" aren't written in stone, you know--certain incidents like this one and the one in Austin Terrace highlight their eternal need for fine-tuning and even change. Once upon a time, "the laws of this city" didn't allow even a fraction of the heritage protection we have now. They also didn't allow for today's standards of gender equality, ethnic/racial/LGBT tolerance, etc. And those on the wrong side of those arguments were prone to spitting at variations on the proverbial "people like you and your disgusting crusades", too...

IMO, the easiest way to "fix" the system is to give automatic historic status to any structure on it's 100th birthday and then vet the list back down.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

That's great. I still feel that in the current legal environment that the right decision was made, one cannot reasonably be expected to believe that every property that they are buying is going to be or have some historical significance. Furthermore in this situation there was no effort to declare the neighbourhood as historic (which is what the argument was, that the new house would destroy the historic neighbourhood) only to block a single homeowner.

 

[AGTO]

It's also interesting that the previous homeowner (the one with the blog rallying against the current owner) tried to sell this house, and another nearby property, to a developer to put in a series of townhouses.
They're probably jealous as well, which is why they changed their tune.

 

[Eug]

"The laws of this city" aren't written in stone, you know--certain incidents like this one and the one in Austin Terrace highlight their eternal need for fine-tuning and even change. Once upon a time, "the laws of this city" didn't allow even a fraction of the heritage protection we have now. They also didn't allow for today's standards of gender equality, ethnic/racial/LGBT tolerance, etc. And those on the wrong side of those arguments were prone to spitting at variations on the proverbial "people like you and your disgusting crusades", too...

Heh. Somehow I'm unfortunately not surprised that this time the argument is comparing someone to a gay basher or racist etc. just because he doesn't want to support an asshole neighbour's crusade against a modern (and accessible) home.

 

[adma]

IMO, the easiest way to "fix" the system is to give automatic historic status to any structure on it's 100th birthday and then vet the list back down.

Er, Mapleson, if you're prone to invoking the "100 years old" theory of heritage worth, you've written off your credibility on all matters heritage-related, dear ignorant amateur...

Particularly as I'd argue that this presently endangered building is heritage-worthy, too.

Ah, AGTO, Woodbridge Heights: it's post like yours that leave certain longtime UTers like Archivist or the Miscellany-photo-thread bunch shaking their heads...

 

[AGTO]

Ah, AGTO, Woodbridge Heights: it's post like yours that leave certain longtime UTers like Archivist or the Miscellany-photo-thread bunch shaking their heads...

likewise adma...it's amazing how ignorant and pompous some hard core forum posters can be.

 

[Tewder]

Regardless of the legalities involved I just do not understand the self-absorbed mentality that somehow justifies some personal choices: "I love this neighbourhood and want to live here because I do but am going to fly in the face of everything I love about it because it is my legal right". Should anybody be surprised that you don't win Neighbour-of-the-Year award or have locals dropping off fruit cakes to welcome you with open arms to the community? Talk about agent provocatuers! Pity them come devils night!!!

At the end of the day, er devil's night, however, the fault is ultimately with the city and not with the moronic home owners, no matter how many legs they do or do not have to stand on. If we truly value the heritage character of our city and its buildings and neighbourhoods we should be doing something about it, in advance, so that everybody understands the rules of engagement before engaging... which comes back to Adma's point about Napoleonic Law... I think cause I never really understand Adma's posts, admittedly, even if I do very much enjoy reading them!

Brantford is the great example, for me, of where the laws and the process fall down. Yes, yes, everybody has their rights but yet why do I feel so violated? Maybe because it's just that I love the poetry of E. Pauline Johnson and am sick to bloody death of being asked by people, from Ontario yet, who the hell is she? We constantly see the heritage and Heritage of this province, our home, being taken for granted, indeed completely scorned, by hacks who would pay big bucks to travel overseas to lap up the same stuff elsewhere, coming back to lament we have nothing here.... Bogus! Get out and enjoy the minute details of what we have crafted here and understand that it takes community 'civility' to create this over time. There are plenty of neighbourhoods or streets where the owners in question would have settled in pleasantly without ruffling the feathers of those they would choose to live among. Why don't people get this? Why do rights have to constantly bulldoze over social responsibilities? In the end this tells me more about them than their plea for understanding based on the rights of ownership. Hmph!