wopchop
Building Toronto
That isn't why Haredi do not want to be conscripted. They believe full time Torah study is their job and contribution to the defense of Judaism.
(Also, obviously I am speaking in general)
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2022/25 Russian-Ukrainian War
- Thread starter Towered
- Start date
(Also, obviously I am speaking in general)
Full Metal Junkie
Active Member
I wish Ukraine did not have that problem. Well, maybe not the religious hypocrisy part, but Ukraine has the same problem with people refusing to do their part. This is the main reason behind Ukraine's manpower shortages that is causing them to slowly lose ground to the Russians. In order to sustain the attrition rates, both Russia and Ukraine are adding 30K new soldiers a month. Russia - through shady recruiting practices and payouts, Ukraine - through forced mobilisation and literally kidnapping men off the street by shoving them into busses (a method dubbed "bussification"). Ukraine is going the route of bussification because no one is volunteering to join UAF anymore. With hundreds of thousands Ukrainian soldiers dead and many more coming back wounded and crippled, it doesn't fill the rest of Ukrainian population with confidence and desire to repeat their sacrifice.
And even though UAF manage to forcefully bussify about 30K men a month, majority of them go AWOL as soon at they get a chance. This October was another record-breaking month with a whopping 21K out of 30K new recruits deserting the army.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Ultimately only they can decide how much they want to keep fighting, given that Western aid is drying up. Europeans like Germany are ever ready to basically surrender Eastern Europe to Russia. US aid has all but ended. And even Canada talks a big game but hadn't done all that we could.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I sometimes think Europe (and Canada) would have been happier if Viktor Yanukovych had held onto power in 2014, and successfully moved the country towards Russia, to something akin to Belarus. At the end of the day, Canada and Europe’s responsibility starts and ends at the NATO border. It is argued that if Ukraine fails, NATO will be next, but that’s to be seen. I think Ukraine’s only viable path is to fight on until Jan 2029 and hope the new White House will help them.
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Full Metal Junkie
Active Member
So it was clear as day that this 'peace plan' was written by the Russians and pushed on Trump by Witkoff. And now we have a leaked phone conversation that shows just how ugly the backroom deals were:
Some key highlights:
So now we know who was coaching the Russians on how to get on Trump's good side, how to derail Zelensky's visit to the White House in October, and how to torpedo any tomahawk deal with a new round of marry-go-round discussions about meetings between Putin, Trump and Zelenksky.
There is a separate later transcript between Ushakov and Dmitriev where it is clear that Dmitriev wrote the plan and is using Ushakov to pass it to Witkoff. Clear instructions: make sure it's informal, make sure they don't say its our formal offer, make sure they don't say it came from us, make sure they [Trump admin] say they drafted it. Let's hope they don't amend it too much.
Seems like Witkoff did the Russians' bidding rather well: didn't make any amendments, just google-translated it.
US government official doing the bidding of an adversarial government, coaching the adversaries on how it's best to get into the US president's head.
The word "treason" springs to mind, doesn't it?
kEiThZ
Superstar
And there will be no consequences because this is what Trump wants.
EBT
Active Member
Make Money Not War: Donald Trump's Real Peace Plan for Ukraine (WSJ)
Link to article
Interesting article outlining how Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff are planning to cash in big time post Ukraine war. In Trump's first term Kushner made billions from the Saudi's and Qataris. Trump is looking for an even bigger cash haul the second time around.
Excerpt:
"At his waterfront estate, billionaire developer-turned-special envoy Steve Witkoff was hosting Kirill Dmitriev, head of Russia’s sovereign-wealth fund and Vladimir Putin’s handpicked negotiator, who had largely shaped the document they were revising on the screen. Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, had arrived from his nearby home on an island known as the “Billionaire Bunker.”
Dmitriev was pushing a plan for U.S. companies to tap the roughly $300 billion of Russian central bank assets, frozen in Europe, for U.S.-Russian investment projects and a U.S.-led reconstruction of Ukraine. U.S. and Russian companies could join to exploit the vast mineral wealth in the Arctic. There were no limits to what two longtime adversaries could achieve, Dmitriev had argued for months: Their rival space industries, which raced one another during the Cold War, could even pursue a joint mission to Mars with Elon Musk’s SpaceX."
“Russia has so many vast resources, vast expanses of land,” Witkoff told The Wall Street Journal, describing at length his hopes that Russia, Ukraine and America would all become business partners. “If we do all that, and everybody’s prospering and they’re all a part of it, and there’s upside for everybody, that’s going to naturally be a bulwark against future conflicts there. Because everybody’s thriving.”
Trump, Witkoff, and the Kushner family made much of their fortune laundering money for Russian oligarchs, so it is not surprising to see that this is what the peace plan is all about. I don't know how the American people can tolerate such naked corruption. America is for sale under Trump, and he doesn't even attempt to hide it.
Link to article
Interesting article outlining how Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff are planning to cash in big time post Ukraine war. In Trump's first term Kushner made billions from the Saudi's and Qataris. Trump is looking for an even bigger cash haul the second time around.
Excerpt:
"At his waterfront estate, billionaire developer-turned-special envoy Steve Witkoff was hosting Kirill Dmitriev, head of Russia’s sovereign-wealth fund and Vladimir Putin’s handpicked negotiator, who had largely shaped the document they were revising on the screen. Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, had arrived from his nearby home on an island known as the “Billionaire Bunker.”
Dmitriev was pushing a plan for U.S. companies to tap the roughly $300 billion of Russian central bank assets, frozen in Europe, for U.S.-Russian investment projects and a U.S.-led reconstruction of Ukraine. U.S. and Russian companies could join to exploit the vast mineral wealth in the Arctic. There were no limits to what two longtime adversaries could achieve, Dmitriev had argued for months: Their rival space industries, which raced one another during the Cold War, could even pursue a joint mission to Mars with Elon Musk’s SpaceX."
“Russia has so many vast resources, vast expanses of land,” Witkoff told The Wall Street Journal, describing at length his hopes that Russia, Ukraine and America would all become business partners. “If we do all that, and everybody’s prospering and they’re all a part of it, and there’s upside for everybody, that’s going to naturally be a bulwark against future conflicts there. Because everybody’s thriving.”
Trump, Witkoff, and the Kushner family made much of their fortune laundering money for Russian oligarchs, so it is not surprising to see that this is what the peace plan is all about. I don't know how the American people can tolerate such naked corruption. America is for sale under Trump, and he doesn't even attempt to hide it.
Full Metal Junkie
Active Member
This reads like Irish officials trying to downplay an assassination attempt on Zelensky:
www.thejournal.ie
While no one is pointing fingers at Russia yet, we all know what the results of investigation will reveal, if there are going to be any results.
Also, not surprising that Russia attempted to down Zelensky's jet over Ireland - the non-NATO state with near-zero military defense capabilities.
What surprises me is that Ireland, with its armed forces at 6,300 active personnel (6000 of whom are manning desk jobs) had the capacity to dispatch an entire navy dingy and one of their 2 operational helicopters to pre-emptively surveil Zelensky's jet approach path.
Call me paranoid, but it sounds like they were tipped off. You don't just happen to be patrolling with half of your air force at the exact time and place where Russians are trying to down the Ukraine Force One.
Four unidentified military-style drones breached no-fly zone to target Zelenskyy's arrival in Dublin
Gardaí are investigating whether the drones took off from land in Dublin or from an undetected ship.
www.thejournal.ie
While no one is pointing fingers at Russia yet, we all know what the results of investigation will reveal, if there are going to be any results.
Also, not surprising that Russia attempted to down Zelensky's jet over Ireland - the non-NATO state with near-zero military defense capabilities.
What surprises me is that Ireland, with its armed forces at 6,300 active personnel (6000 of whom are manning desk jobs) had the capacity to dispatch an entire navy dingy and one of their 2 operational helicopters to pre-emptively surveil Zelensky's jet approach path.
Call me paranoid, but it sounds like they were tipped off. You don't just happen to be patrolling with half of your air force at the exact time and place where Russians are trying to down the Ukraine Force One.
Full Metal Junkie
Active Member
Pokrovsk & Myrnohrad update, Part 3
source: DeepState
The situation is playing out exactly as was predicted in my October post. Pokrovsk is now fully under Russian control. Myrnohrad is operationally surrounded with the noose tightening. It is now fully encircled by the "grey zone" (a.k.a. drone kill zone). Due to the boneheaded command of general Syrskyj, up to 5 brigades are encircled now.
The most rage-inducing part of it all is that Syrskyj is still denying the reality. In his media briefings, according to him, he's still in control of Pokrovsk and there's nothing to worry about in Myrnohrad. Moreover, he is now literally copying Russian media tactics they were infamous for from the beginning of the war: create victories in the media narratives regardless of the facts on the ground. Media victories at all costs. Russians are infamous for their media operations: they send in small groups to infiltrate positions behind enemy lines and wave the Russian flag while a drone films them. They then post the footage all over the web and claim that they have captured another village/town. And the fact that the soldiers posing with the flag are literally killed mere moments after the drone is done filming them? Minor and unimportant details, something no one needs to know about.
Ever since Syrskyj took over from Zaluzhny, UAF have increasingly engaged in these flag planting PR stunts. They now even have a special flag planting unit: 425th Skala Assault Regiment. Flag plantings seems to be their primary combat role. Over the past couple of months, Skala have been called on multiple times to walk behind enemy lines and produce pretty pictures for Syrskyj to support his claims that Ukraine is still in control of Pokrovsk.
Last week was a new low for Skala. They probably could no longer physically infiltrate into Pokrovsk due to the overwhelming Russian presence. So they did one better - they posted an AI doctored video of soldiers posing with a Ukrainian flag. The footage that is easily recognizable as the original video of Russians waving their flag.
If Ukraine keeps prioritizing fighting PR battles over fighting the real ones, they will soon lose the war.
Full Metal Junkie
Active Member
Another milestone in the modern warfare history: Ukraine has successfully damaged and disabled a Russian attack submarine using an unmanned underwater vessel (UUV). This is the first time in history a submarine was successfully damaged by a drone and the first UUV attack of its kind.
Ukraine had already changed naval warfare forever. With its use of unmanned surface vessels (USVs), it had destroyed about a quarter of the Russian Black Sea fleet, forcing the rest to cower inside its farthest from Ukraine ports that are completely blocked off to naval traffic. Basically, Ukraine has rendered the entire Russian navy useless in the Black Sea - if they ever leave the port, they get swarmed by USVs, some USVs get through and go boom, Russian ships go in the drink.
And now Ukraine has found a way to go around the port defenses too. Err, rather go under the port defenses. My understanding is that Russians use layers of linked barges, floats, buoys and metal nets to close off their ports from USVs:
source: Google maps, Sevastopol
Those nets only extend so far below the surface, UUVs just go under... This was the first successful deep UUV strike into the heart of the Russian naval force. Lets hope it was the first of many.
Ukraine had already changed naval warfare forever. With its use of unmanned surface vessels (USVs), it had destroyed about a quarter of the Russian Black Sea fleet, forcing the rest to cower inside its farthest from Ukraine ports that are completely blocked off to naval traffic. Basically, Ukraine has rendered the entire Russian navy useless in the Black Sea - if they ever leave the port, they get swarmed by USVs, some USVs get through and go boom, Russian ships go in the drink.
And now Ukraine has found a way to go around the port defenses too. Err, rather go under the port defenses. My understanding is that Russians use layers of linked barges, floats, buoys and metal nets to close off their ports from USVs:
source: Google maps, Sevastopol
Those nets only extend so far below the surface, UUVs just go under... This was the first successful deep UUV strike into the heart of the Russian naval force. Lets hope it was the first of many.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
I think that China is going to make a move to finance Ukraine's rebuilding as part of their BRI. This is especially true if Trump (or post Nov 2026 Congress) and the EU fail to step up postwar.
Interests first: China’s playbook for post-conflict reconstruction and implications for Ukraine
Key findings China has developed a track record and a growing global role in post-conflict reconstruction and expressed willingness to contribute to rebuilding Ukraine when the time comes. Chinese actors bring an attractive mix of capabilities, including multiple companies experienced in...
China waits in the wings for opportunity as Trump makes Ukraine peace push
As a deal to end the war takes shape, wary Beijing sees a post-war reconstruction role but also significant geopolitical risks.
www.scmp.com
Richard White
Senior Member
Oh trust me, I understand you completely.
I have videos of Communist Hungary and have visited the house of terror museum in Budapest several times. I also have stories from my Grandmother where they had to hide her and her sisters when the Nazis invaded her village for fear they would be raped or sent to the camps.
The fact remains that unless we go in with overwhelming force, this will never end. This however is not Iraq and NATO invading Russia will only lead to WW3. Putting missiles in Ukraine will only lead to another Missle Crisis.
Worst case scenario, getting NATO involved will lead to a much larger conflict across Europe only instead of conventional weapons, Russia is armed to the teeth with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world.
All things considered, I would much rather let Russia take a bit of territory in the name of a peace treaty than to see WW3 erupt because I wanted to force the issue.
As you say, I am of Hungarian ancestry. I am very well accquainted with how the Treaty of Trianon worked out for us. Don't forget, we lost 2/3rds of our country at the end of WW1.
I have videos of Communist Hungary and have visited the house of terror museum in Budapest several times. I also have stories from my Grandmother where they had to hide her and her sisters when the Nazis invaded her village for fear they would be raped or sent to the camps.
The fact remains that unless we go in with overwhelming force, this will never end. This however is not Iraq and NATO invading Russia will only lead to WW3. Putting missiles in Ukraine will only lead to another Missle Crisis.
Worst case scenario, getting NATO involved will lead to a much larger conflict across Europe only instead of conventional weapons, Russia is armed to the teeth with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world.
All things considered, I would much rather let Russia take a bit of territory in the name of a peace treaty than to see WW3 erupt because I wanted to force the issue.
As you say, I am of Hungarian ancestry. I am very well accquainted with how the Treaty of Trianon worked out for us. Don't forget, we lost 2/3rds of our country at the end of WW1.
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kEiThZ
Superstar
"Just give them Sudentenland. That will satisfy them."
kEiThZ
Superstar
Finally outing yourself as a Putinist with this. Straight up Ruzzian talking points. NATO has never even so much as talked about attacking Ruzzia let alone invading. Putin resents that NATO stops his dreams of neo-Soviet expansionism. And useful idiots aid him by making a defensive alliance out to be the aggressor.
Richard White
Senior Member
What do you think will happen if we put missles in Ukraine, that Putin will just lay down arms and run away scared?
No. He will go to full alert as a show of strength and put his silos on alert in an attempt to get the west to back down. What then.. the US will go to Defcon 2 and you will likely be fodder for the Russians overseas.