2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises

[nfitz]

I'm sure that is correct, but to be fair to the PCs, their policy is at least consistant with there view on the issue, unlike the Liberals who have gone out of their way to both pay too much for power while selling it for too little while claiming to be for the environment.

Since when was subsidizing a private corporation to keep prices low a Conservative position? When Pierre Trudeau did this with Oil and Gas prices, the PCs freaked out. Subsidies are left-wing thing, not a right-wing thing.

Do you have a counter example?

Good riddance to them.

Good riddance from a transit perspective? It's not like the NDP did well on this issue the last time we elected them. Surely better the devil you know, than the one that created a massive deficit last time - and their transit platform in 2014 was dreadful; though I admit it's looking somewhat more positive this time at least compared to 2014.

 

[Randomguy]

Since when was subsidizing a private corporation to keep prices low a Conservative position? When Pierre Trudeau did this with Oil and Gas prices, the PCs freaked out. Subsidies are left-wing thing, not a right-wing thing.

Do you have a counter example?

Good riddance from a transit perspective? It's not like the NDP did well on this issue the last time we elected them. Surely better the devil you know, than the one that created a massive deficit last time - and their transit platform in 2014 was dreadful; though I admit it's looking somewhat more positive this time at least compared to 2014.

Good riddance to them from a Hydro/corruption/global warming POV. Transit/transportation is harder to gauge.

 

[BurlOak]

Good riddance to them from a Hydro/corruption/global warming POV. Transit/transportation is harder to gauge.

Transit you can still look at efficiency of spending, and ability to get projects done.

 

[MisterF]

Transit you can still look at efficiency of spending, and ability to get projects done.

Things that Doug Ford and previous conservative governments have proven to be especially inept at.

 

[crs1026]

Transit you can still look at efficiency of spending, and ability to get projects done.

You can do the same with any kind of infrastructure. The question is how directly you can create a “line of sight” to the public.

If you are a commuter waiting for a promised RT line to open, the line of sight is pretty direct. But if you are a hydro customer, and a rebuild of a power plant goes south, you don’t notice so long as your lights stay on. Eventually your hydro bills may rise, but there are so many puts and takes in that, it may take years to show up. By then the skeletons have been buried.

I’m a strong believer in rigourous, detailed, and independently verified scorecards for any major publicly funded endeavour. None of the political parties really endorse this. It’s too risky politically. The difference is - the Liberals bury results measurement because they know it will conflict with their PR puffery. Whereas Doug Ford disagrees with it because he doesn’t understand the measures and doesn’t care to read the reports. Either way, in politics, an uninformed populace is the goal.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

Good riddance to them from a Hydro/corruption/global warming POV. Transit/transportation is harder to gauge.

I'm not thrilled that Wynne has made hydro rates cheap, and they are the same as they before the last two elections. But both other parties indicated they would do the same thing.

I'm not aware of any corruption issues during the last government - in fact, the only party leader who was found to be corrupt during the last 4 years was the finding against Doug Ford by city council.

Global warming!?!?

 

[ssiguy2]

Essentially, Ford just has to campaign that the books are completely cooked and he can't promise anything until he gets an independent review done. He can talk general platitudes that how its preferable to have someone who will do the right thing compared to a proven corrupt party.

Except, unlike being a counsellor from an obscure suburban riding with no political affiliations, he has to go to those Tory candidates and try to explain to them why their region won`t be getting the transit expansion they were promised. Politicians love nothing more than a good old fashioned ribbon-cutting ceremony and this deprives them of that and no Conservative MP is willing to put their re-election ass on the line to keep Ford {or any leader for that matter} happy. This is made even more difficult for 2 reasons:

First, the vast majority of these new or expanded lines will help suburban 416, 905, and mid-sized regional cities the most. This is where the election will be decided and the Tories know they cannot jeopardize these seats. The Tories did incredibly poorly in Ham/Lon/Ott/KWC/Tor-416 in the last election and must make major gains to win their majority. Telling those voters {and the Tory candidates who are running in those areas} that they will not be getting their promised expansions is a very hard sell and political suicide.

Second, there expansions and fare reductions have already been promised and so have set up public expectations. Once a promise has been made by any party, taking it back is very hard to do. This is especially true when picking fights for specific projects with mayors and city counsellors. It is far easier politically to cut back on some small programs, hirings or force pay freezes than cutting specific projects which people will notice immediately. No one notices and hence politicians don't care if there is a cut in staff and/or budgets of natural resources, recreation, parks, driver license centers etc but cutting big ticket one time ribbon cutting projects is far less politically palatable.

 

[Allandale25]

From twitter today:

Ben Spurr @BenSpurr

I asked Metrolinx CEO Phil Verster about the fact the Ontario PC's, leading in the polls, have not made any commitments to continue major Metrolinx programs like regional express rail (incl. SmartTrack) and the Finch West LRT.

"We have very clear business cases for the programs we’re busy with. Government of the day makes the decision on policy and what programs they want," Verster said. "We don’t do politics."

Q: Do you see it as your responsibility to advocate for transit? If a new gov't wants to cancel the Finch LRT or regional express rail, is it your duty to stand up and say these projects are for the public good? Verster: "Our business cases advocate for themselves."

Verster: "This is why when we talk about benefit cost ratios, we talk very clearly and very loudly about what transit can do."

 

[innsertnamehere]

He has yet to formally confirm it, but as I have said elsewhere, it would really surprise me if he didn't.

 

[hw621]

Someone mentioned Doug Ford committed to 2WAD to Kitchener so I thought I'd bring the convo here, anyone know if thats full RER?

Lol, Tim Hudak also committed to 2WAD in the last election. At that time it just meant infrequent diesel services without electrification.

 

[crs1026]

One interesting bit of history that ought to be pointed at Doug Ford: he was one of the cabal that sold off the banked land on Eglinton West which had always been earmarked for an Eglinton expressway.

Given that fact, I wonder how he could argue for adding roads leading into the 416 to improve commutes.

I wonder what his plan is to deal with auto congestion and growing number of people wanting to get into Toronto, especially at rush hour.

I suspect he would say that if we could just remove all the busses and trams (and bike lanes) from city streets, traffic would magically unravel and the city would be great again.....but.....

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

One interesting bit of history that ought to be pointed at Doug Ford: he was one of the cabal that sold off the banked land on Eglinton West which had always been earmarked for an Eglinton expressway.

He never spoke once to the issue. It was buried deep in attachments to mundane reports, and was never discussed at council.

He probably has no idea he approved it. And we discussed that extensively in one of the threads here, when that vote happened back in ... was it 2013 or 2014? No one thought otherwise at the time.

Given that fact, I wonder how he could argue for adding roads leading into the 416 to improve commutes.

Probably the same way he argues other impossibilities - like his position that we had to cancel the Line 3 conversion to LRT because of the at-grade crossing of roads causing traffic issues.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that Doug Ford is a very stupid man, with low intelligence. He knows how to bully - and he does it well.

And we know he doesn't prepare to meetings, by trying to read the reports.

Do we even know if he can read? He didn't even complete grade school after all.

 

[Leo_Chan]

He never spoke once to the issue. It was buried deep in attachments to mundane reports, and was never discussed at council.

He probably has no idea he approved it. And we discussed that extensively in one of the threads here, when that vote happened back in ... was it 2013 or 2014? No one thought otherwise at the time.

Probably the same way he argues other impossibilities - like his position that we had to cancel the Line 3 conversion to LRT because of the at-grade crossing of roads causing traffic issues.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that Doug Ford is a very stupid man, with low intelligence. He knows how to bully - and he does it well.

And we know he doesn't prepare to meetings, by trying to read the reports.

Do we even know if he can read? He didn't even complete grade school after all.

But is Doug smarter than Rob?

 

[wolfewood]

All these promises from Doug Ford remind me of the Simpsons episode where Homer is elected sanitation commissioner.

 

[nfitz]

But is Doug smarter than Rob?

I'm not sure Doug was was smarter actually. On the rare occasions that Rob was sober, he showed some capacity for growth and learning. And certainly far more compassion than I've ever seen from Doug. There's lots of examples of Rob going out of his way to help individual constituents, as councillor. Doug held the same position for 4 years, and I didn't ever hear a single story like that - other than when Deco Labels needed some asphalt patched on city property.

Doug perhaps is stubborner though, and cudos for him having managed to control the addictions that have plagued most of his family and stayed sober (as far as I know) for many years. However, the unrelenting uncompromising drive that has allowed him to do that, does seem to make him unsuitable for political office.