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2018 Provincial Election Transit Promises

Yeah, the original analog phones were on a lower frequency range that propagates a little further...and a lot of those phones ran at higher power with bigger antennae. Each successive technology upgrade has put the telcos back to square 1 in coverage, although as they have filled in the gaps with towers, that’s often moot these days. The Ontario system is a different frequency range again, and its backbone linking it all together wouldn’t have the bandwidth for commercial traffic.

Having said all that, I do think cell coverage along the whole route is essential for emergency reasons, but not to the extent that the kids in the back seat have streaming. The TCH is a vital link, but it makes no sense to overbuild it at great expense. Beyond North Bay and Sudbury, the argument of time saved by divided highway speed limits gets much less compelling.

- Paul

Yes, remember the days of the 'bag phone' with a window mounted antenna. I'm going on some pretty old memory but I believe the trunking frequencies of the Ontario system are in the 800MHz range but I could be wrong.

We'll need more at some point. Why not build an alternative corridor and boost redundancy if we're upgrading the highway anyway? And note I am not suggesting it in one shot. I am suggesting a goal. Say 25 years to have twinned TCH end to end. And expressway standard where warranted.

This suggestion was not at all about the highway users. A lot of cell users will be relatively close to the highway. Putting towers up along the highway, will improve their service and would presumably we cheaper for the telcos to service. A substantial added benefit will be proper cell coverage on the TCH.

Again, the idea here is to stop thinking of the TCH as just a highway and start thinking of it a strategic corridor that allows several uses and assets to be co-located. Pipelines, power lines, comms lines/links and the road itself.

Fair point on the redundancy factor and how to achieve it. I highly doubt the carriers would be interested in filling in coverage along the routes given the very low customer base unless the governments pretty much paid for it. Most towns along the way already have a tower of two for local coverage. it's the long gaps in between where nobody lives that are the cost problem.
Across the prairies it is not uncommon to see road/rail/power/etc. running together. In the north (and I'm limiting myself here to TCH in Northern Ontario), hydro can run shorter and cheaper (albeit maintenance might be more complicated) by running cross-country. There is only one transmission link between N/W Ontario and the rest of the province anyway. The Trans-Canada pipeline already roughly follows the Hwy 11 route, and of course we know how much fun just thinking about building new lines can be, even if a need is indicated.

In terms of "strategic", there could be a counter argument about putting all assets in one corridor.
 
Letter from Transport Action Ontario here:

Dear Premier Ford and Minister Yakabuski:

Comments on your Public Transportation Platform for Ontario

Transport Action Ontario (TAO) would like to congratulate you and your team on your recent election victory. It is clear that the people of Ontario wanted change. We are a long-standing Ontario-wide non-government organization that advocates for public transportation, particularly rail-based. We were pleased to see the strong emphasis on public transportation in the “Plan for the People” platform.

We would like to offer our comments and analysis of each major promise relating to passenger rail, in the hopes that they offer guidance as you proceed to implement.

1. Deliver 2-way all-day GO service, GO expansions and regional transit projects in Ottawa, Hamilton, Mississauga/Brampton, Kitchener-Waterloo and London.

We are pleased that this promise indicates that currently-funded projects will be delivered. These projects will fill major gaps in transit networks in cities across Ontario, and must be delivered on time. We are aware that one project, Finch W LRT, is facing some local opposition by a minority of citizens, who want a subway instead, although this is at least 4 times more costly per kilometer with fewer stops. But we believe that the technical evidence, the cost advantage, as well as public sentiment, are strongly supportive of LRT, and that the project should proceed as per plan.

2. Upload responsibility for existing and new subway lines from the City of Toronto ($160M/yr for existing), while guaranteeing the City keeps all revenue.

This promise puts more money into the transit pocket of the City of Toronto, so is good news. As you know, the City has a very large unfunded transit capital project plan, so any mechanism enabling the City to raise money for these is welcomed. It should be pointed out that the yearly major capital maintenance costs of the existing subway network greatly exceed $160M/yr.

3. Add $5B in new subway funding to the $9B already available to build Sheppard Loop, Scarborough Extension, Relief Line and Yonge Extension, while building future Crosstown extensions underground.

While the extra $5B is welcome, this appears to assume that the $9B recently committed by the federal government under PTIF-2, and matched by the province, is entirely directed at subways. The Relief Line has solid supportive evidence behind it and should proceed before the Yonge Subway Extension, to avoid seriously overloading the current lines. The other three subway ideas (Scarborough, Sheppard, Crosstown) do not have the projected ridership and benefits that justify the high cost of subway technology. Furthermore the quantum of money is insufficient to build these as subways. There are many important rapid transit projects in Toronto that are best suited for LRT technology, including Waterfront and Eglinton East and West. Using LRT where appropriate conserves our precious tax dollars.

4. Actively explore high speed rail (HSR)

This appears to continue the Liberal plan to conduct an Environmental Assessment (EA) on HSR. Our biggest concern is that the planned EA had narrow scope and would not look at alternatives, such as High Performance Rail, involving incremental improvements to train speed and frequency on all existing corridors in Southwestern Ontario, at a much lower cost and shorter project delivery time. A clarification was received from Ernie Hardeman, MPP Oxford on the day before the election that the EA will explore all alternatives. While welcome, we ask you to ensure this really happens.

Intercity rail in Southwestern Ontario (provided by VIA Rail) and connecting feeder bus service is in bad shape. What is needed is technical and financial cooperation between the federal and Ontario governments to revive intercity public transportation in this important region of our province.

4. Bring back passenger rail service to the North ($45M per year)

This is excellent news as it likely relates to restoring the Northlander service between Toronto and Cochrane. We need to ensure this really happens and is only Step 1 of a northern rail passenger service. Our colleagues in Northern Ontario have proposed a passenger loop service also connecting Sudbury, Sault Ste. Marie, Hearst and Timmins into the Northlander line, using existing freight rail trackage. We note that a key component of this loop, the Huron Central Railway, is under threat of closure and may need urgent provincial intervention.

There are other important issues that your platform was silent on, including provincial contribution to transit fare integration in Greater Toronto, assistance to municipal transit agencies to implement low-income fares/passes, and whether Metrolinx should receive broader authority and scope. We look forward to your thoughts on these matters.

While very welcome, your significant commitment to public transportation raises the question of where the money will come from. Of the various tax cuts proposed by your party, the gas tax cut and eliminating the cap and trade program have a double whammy – some of the funds are currently earmarked for transit, and secondly, higher gas and carbon taxes nudge human behaviour towards sustainable transportation modes, such as rail, which is good for the planet. We urge that this funding be replaced from other sources to ensure these public transportation promises can be delivered.

In conclusion, we hope you find these comments helpful. We would be pleased to discuss them further with you or your staffs.

Yours truly,

Peter Miasek
President, Transport Action Ontario
 
This was the one and only mention of transit in his throne speech. Something tells me he doesn't care very much about it
We know from Doug Ford's failed term at council how little he cares about transit, spending more effort trying to reduce it than anything else.

Nothing new there!
 
We know from Doug Ford's failed term at council how little he cares about transit, spending more effort trying to reduce it than anything else.

Nothing new there!

What Doug Ford cares about is only partly relevant? Do people forget we're not American and that party leaders have a whole caucus to worry about, including a pile of 416 MPPs inside Ford's caucus.

Sure, he's not going to build as much as the Liberals would have. Also would be a stretch to say he'll build nothing.
 
What Doug Ford cares about is only partly relevant? Do people forget we're not American and that party leaders have a whole caucus to worry about, including a pile of 416 MPPs inside Ford's caucus.
I didn't comment on it's relevance. Only on the ponderance that "he doesn't care very much about (transit)".

Sure, he's not going to build as much as the Liberals would have. Also would be a stretch to say he'll build nothing.
Given how many kilometres of LRT, RER, BRT, and subway are already planned, even the Liberals were unlikely to build only a portion (given the number of projects they've delayed in the last few terms).

Ford may do nothing, but still there'd be a lot built.

I fear though, that he'll do more than nothing, and actively work to kill projects - such as the various lines that have evolved out of Transit City, like the Eglinton West LRT, Eglinton East LRT, Downtown Relief Line North, Waterfront LRT, and various BRT efforts - not to mention the Finch West LRT. And I'd assume it's a given that the RER plans will be downgraded and de-electrified.
 
I think GO and RER expansion will go ahead and Ford said clearly in the election that he will introduce every 15 minute each-way, all-day service like RER. It is very important to note however that he did not say `electrified` service. Electrification in the scheme of things is not very expensive nor even time consuming except when build by ML but due to the Liberal`s fixation on building parking garages, he has the ability of stopping it all together with no construction penalties. Also there will be no rolling stock penalties as ML has yet to even figure out what kinds of trains they will be using. Another example of MLs complete incompetence.

This exceptionally poor planning and priorities by Metrolinx has also opened a new door. to Hydrail. Germany just this month has given the OK for Hydrail on it`s rail systems throughout the country. It has been running for 6 months but it was a trial and the trial proved very successful with 100% reliability in both performance and safety and is saving the system money and has brought emissions from diesel levels to zero. With Ontario`s automotive sector under attack he will be under heavy pressure to diversify the provincial economy and focusing on hydrogen power would start a whole new industry and would also save him the time and money of electrification and it would ensure an electric RER is up and running BEFORE the next election.
 
I think GO and RER expansion will go ahead and Ford said clearly in the election that he will introduce every 15 minute each-way, all-day service like RER. It is very important to note however that he did not say `electrified` service. Electrification in the scheme of things is not very expensive nor even time consuming except when build by ML but due to the Liberal`s fixation on building parking garages, he has the ability of stopping it all together with no construction penalties. Also there will be no rolling stock penalties as ML has yet to even figure out what kinds of trains they will be using. Another example of MLs complete incompetence.

This exceptionally poor planning and priorities by Metrolinx has also opened a new door. to Hydrail. Germany just this month has given the OK for Hydrail on it`s rail systems throughout the country. It has been running for 6 months but it was a trial and the trial proved very successful with 100% reliability in both performance and safety and is saving the system money and has brought emissions from diesel levels to zero. With Ontario`s automotive sector under attack he will be under heavy pressure to diversify the provincial economy and focusing on hydrogen power would start a whole new industry and would also save him the time and money of electrification and it would ensure an electric RER is up and running BEFORE the next election.
Let's hope he is that smart and visionary...
 
This exceptionally poor planning and priorities by Metrolinx has also opened a new door. to Hydrail. Germany just this month has given the OK for Hydrail on it`s rail systems throughout the country. It has been running for 6 months but it was a trial and the trial proved very successful with 100% reliability in both performance and safety and is saving the system money and has brought emissions from diesel levels to zero.

Don't forget that all major rail lines in Germany are already electrified with conventional wires.

Hydrail works for sure, but in Germany it is used on secondary lines where the service is infrequent and the cost of installing conventional wires can't be justified.

That doesn't necessarily mean Hydrail is the best or most economical choice for GTA, since we are choosing the technology for our primary lines.
 
To me we are in no position to be making such a gamble on new technology. If we go for Hydrogen and it turns out it doesn't meet our demands then what? what do we have to fall back on? Will just end up back on Diesel that won't be able to meet growing demands (while the cost of electrification continues to rise). We should focus on electrifying what we know we can and maybe in 20 or 30 years we can give Hydrogen a shot when it has proven itself in more markets; if it still fails to meet our demands than at least we can fall back on conventional electrified trains so nothing ends up changing from a service level standpoint.
 
I think GO and RER expansion will go ahead and Ford said clearly in the election that he will introduce every 15 minute each-way, all-day service like RER. It is very important to note however that he did not say `electrified` service. Electrification in the scheme of things is not very expensive nor even time consuming except when build by ML but due to the Liberal`s fixation on building parking garages, he has the ability of stopping it all together with no construction penalties. Also there will be no rolling stock penalties as ML has yet to even figure out what kinds of trains they will be using. Another example of MLs complete incompetence.

This exceptionally poor planning and priorities by Metrolinx has also opened a new door. to Hydrail. Germany just this month has given the OK for Hydrail on it`s rail systems throughout the country. It has been running for 6 months but it was a trial and the trial proved very successful with 100% reliability in both performance and safety and is saving the system money and has brought emissions from diesel levels to zero. With Ontario`s automotive sector under attack he will be under heavy pressure to diversify the provincial economy and focusing on hydrogen power would start a whole new industry and would also save him the time and money of electrification and it would ensure an electric RER is up and running BEFORE the next election.

Ultimately, no firm is going to back conversion of GO to hydrail. I believe that the hydrogen idea was mainly an attempt to buy time/delay the roll-out of electrification as far as the next election cycle, but then the liberals lost anyway.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...described-hydrogen-train-plan-as-madness.html
 
The Minister of Transportation took his first question today. The response provided by the Minister was general in nature and simply said Ford supports transit. I'll post the hansard transcript later.
 
I didn`t say that Ford shouldn't electrify the system but it would give him a good excuse not to. ML & the Liberals have done nothing and so it leaves the door open.

Buying a massive fleet of Hydrail trains would be a mistake and too big a gamble. That said, leasing a few trains from Alstom to run the ST section would be a great place to test the market and Hydrail`s viability for RER. Alstom would take care of all the operations during the test period like they did in the German trials and it would add much needed relief to Y&B and provide faster, quiet, and affordable alternatives to Torontonians which they currently don`t have and Alstom would probably salivate at the chance of testing in a huge system in NA where Hydrail has the biggest opportunities for urban applications because so few systems are already electrified.

By allowing a Hydrail test on the UPX/ST system there is literally nothing to lose as even if they decide to go forward with electrification it still provides relief now as opposed to waiting for 2025. If it doesn`t work out who cares? It not like it`s replacing a current service. Testing the technology is a win-win for Toronto.
 
I didn`t say that Ford shouldn't electrify the system but it would give him a good excuse not to. ML & the Liberals have done nothing and so it leaves the door open.

Buying a massive fleet of Hydrail trains would be a mistake and too big a gamble. That said, leasing a few trains from Alstom to run the ST section would be a great place to test the market and Hydrail`s viability for RER. Alstom would take care of all the operations during the test period like they did in the German trials and it would add much needed relief to Y&B and provide faster, quiet, and affordable alternatives to Torontonians which they currently don`t have and Alstom would probably salivate at the chance of testing in a huge system in NA where Hydrail has the biggest opportunities for urban applications because so few systems are already electrified.

By allowing a Hydrail test on the UPX/ST system there is literally nothing to lose as even if they decide to go forward with electrification it still provides relief now as opposed to waiting for 2025. If it doesn`t work out who cares? It not like it`s replacing a current service. Testing the technology is a win-win for Toronto.
But if we order some hydrail trains now it will still takes years to build and deliver (Bombardier comes to mind...). It will not be a lot earlier than 2025.
 
Yes it would. Just because Bombardier is incompetent doesn`t mean Alstom is. Germany just last month put in it`s first order with Alstom and will begin receiving them for full service in late 2020 and have the entire fleet up and running by mid-2021. I`m sure Alstom could build some trains for lease just as early.

The track is there, the stations are there, the demand is there but unfortunately as with all things Metrolinx, the iniative and planning isn`t.,
 

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