King of Kensington
Senior Member
Have to say Andrea Horwath gave a superb speech today - unapologetically bold and progressive. This was a pleaasant surprise given my dissatisfaction with her leadership.
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2018 Ontario Provincial Election Discussion
- Thread starter MetroMan
- Start date
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
That isn't what that means at all and just shows yet again how nonsensical this false left-right dichotomy really is. I like ska too, but the world isn't two tone.
BurlOak
Senior Member
On a left-right scale, are the Liberals right or left of the Liberals - it's close. I'd say the success of the Liberals the past 3 elections (2 provincial and 1 federal), has been the Liberals moving left of the NDP and getting their supporters, while continuing to get the support of the voters who don't really pay attention and "think" the Liberals are right of the NDP.
Federal.
1970's: P. Trudeau (Lib) = Left-centre, PC = centre-right, NDP = left
1980's: Mulroney (PC) = centre-left, Liberal = centre left, NDP = left
1990's: Chretien (Lib) = centre-right, PC = centre-left, Reform = right, NDP = left.
2000's: Harper (CPC) = centre: Liberal = centre-left, NDP = left.
2010's: J. Trudeau = left, CPC = centre, NDP centre-left.
Provincial
1970's: B. Davis (PC) = centre, Lib = centre-left, NDP = left
1980's: Pederson (Lib) = centre-left, PC = centre-right, NDP = left
1990's: Rae (NDP) = left, PC = right, NDP = left.
1990's: Harris (PC) = right, Liberal = centre-left, NDP = left.
2000's: McGuinty (Liberal) = centre-left: PC= centre-right, NDP = left.
2010's: Wynne = left, CPC = centre-right, NDP centre-left.
Videodrome
Senior Member
CBC was calling her a "kingmaker" after Doug won.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...ranic-allen-cambridge-pc-nomination-1.4581680
King of Kensington
Senior Member
Mulroney was not "centre left."
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
My turn to LOL! (no offense, I can see you put some thought into this)
What is that? 8 bit computer code? 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1.....I've just explained political ideology to the masses!
What, are my 1s and 0s nonsensical? Right.....maybe you guys get the point though.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
With a good candidate the NDP should have a shot in my riding of Toronto Centre. That would be a first IIRC, since we’ve only been either PC or Liberal.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Over the weekend hearing my uncles and dad and his friends, it seems Ford has very atypical support.
A lot of voters who are not ideologically Tory but think Ford would be a good leader. These people never voted Tory before.
Also, they are singularly focused on having Wynee Lose no matter what. That is the goal of the majority of voters in Ontario it seems.
I think people here think that Ford will be a huge Turnoff and underestimate how badly Wynee Is hated in the suburbs of Toronto.
I will likely vote NDP or Tory, whichever can beat the liberal in my area.
Also dont underestimate the intensity of voters as Ford has more hardcore support then Hudak and such.
A lot of voters who are not ideologically Tory but think Ford would be a good leader. These people never voted Tory before.
Also, they are singularly focused on having Wynee Lose no matter what. That is the goal of the majority of voters in Ontario it seems.
I think people here think that Ford will be a huge Turnoff and underestimate how badly Wynee Is hated in the suburbs of Toronto.
I will likely vote NDP or Tory, whichever can beat the liberal in my area.
Also dont underestimate the intensity of voters as Ford has more hardcore support then Hudak and such.
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SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Oh, no, I think he should be a huge turnoff.
I'm not an optimist when it comes to the quality of things that are popular. For example, what are the top selling beers in Ontario? Case closed.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Because, IMO, Ontarians sense this election presents their last chance to be shod of Wynne before her new initiatives pile ontop of the last 15 years of Liberal mess and mismanagement.
If she wins, we’re stuck with carbon taxes, continued growth in spending and deficits, and the continued corruption and mismanagement we saw at Ornge, eHealth, gas plants, etc.
This is the voters’ chance to significantly change the direction of their province. These voters are motivated and ready to take on Wynne.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
None of the members of our family (including myself) want Kathleen Wynne to win (it's the only thing we all agree with).
Despite being a Ford supporter, the rest of my family even prefers Andrea Horwath to win over Wynne.
The rest of my family opposes increased taxes in any form.
Yes, I bleed orange. I am progressive and we have seen that the Liberals are not fit to govern provincially.
I don't want Wynne to win, but I would take her over Ford. Better the devil you know and all that.
I'm currently iffy on Horvath so not sure yet what I will do.
I just love people who oppose taxes -- what do they think pays for the hospitals, health care in general, the roads, transit, the schools and so on?
I'm currently iffy on Horvath so not sure yet what I will do.
I just love people who oppose taxes -- what do they think pays for the hospitals, health care in general, the roads, transit, the schools and so on?
King of Kensington
Senior Member
They just think you can "just" cut waste.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Libs have already increased taxes and have engaged in a lot of questionable spending.
Whether that is true or not but people dont like higher taxes if they dont trust the person on top.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Like it or not, it's because people don't perceive benefit from government spending.
And I can sort of sympathize with that. This government (and particularly under Wynne) has prioritized social programs over everything else. And more importantly, it has prioritized initiatives that specifically benefit lower income voters, while explicitly asking upper and middle income classes to fund those programs. So why are those higher earning voters going to vote for the Liberals? You'd argue that it's no loss to lose some wealthy voters. I'd argue they are losing most of the GTA.
Take for example the Student Opportunity grants. It's a great example to illustrate the above. Let's use this presentation:
http://careercollegesontario.ca/Data/files/Conference 2017/OSAP Presentation - Presented by Travis Coulter of the MAESD _compressed.pdf
Parental income under $50 000, basically gets a free degree. Great for those families. But for example, take the reaction of my normally very progressive spouse when I told her about this, "The government is not helping any recent graduates saddled with debt, while now effectively devaluing their degree." A family over $86000 per year has to start contribution. No biggie right? It's not much...but from $90 000 to $110 000 the amount that parents are expected to contribute quadruples.
This means the average GTA family is contributing substantially to their kids' tuition. Meanwhile, they face crushing home prices and the skyrocketing property taxes in the 905 (poor development choices...but that's a different discussion). There's no sympathy for these families, because, hey, they are "rich" in the eyes of others. Meanwhile, they have no idea why their bank account is so light every month and they are living paycheque to paycheque. This is one example, but there's a lot of programs that don't do much for GTA voters.
And this is why I argue the Liberals should have done much more for infrastructure. That's a spending area where everyone benefits and the the benefits are mostly tangible for the average voter. Or, engineer social programs differently, so that more people benefit. Instead, of giving large grants for university degree to low-income students, how about working towards making community college free for everyone? We'd get more job skills in effect, and the same aid could have been disbursed among many more students.