2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Transit Plans

[salsa]

ssiguy2, what the heck is Smartrax?

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't think the Eglinton portion of Smartrax will go ahead and that's a good thing.

Any Eglinton portion will be an extension of the Eglinton LRT to hook up with the MiWay Transitway.

Smartrax will be far easier, faster, and much cheaper to build if it basically just took over the UPX line. It's amazing how Toronto's newest "rapid transit" line in a decade has received nothing but scorn and the only people looking forward to it are people at Metrolinx for a good old fashioned ribbon-cutting. Metrolinx has said this line will not have it's operations subsidized so unless these fares are at $30 one way {as the Auditor General thinks they will have to be to break even}, this line is going to bleed red-ink. There will be a huge public backlash when the high fares are announced and after the Pan-Am games, I think this line will probably be converted to a GO RER or Smartrax which is what it should have been in the first place.

A Smartrax {which would be TTC fare} would also serve hundreds of thousands at Weston and Humber area that have no options now except the slow boat to China buses. Basically subway service to thousands who are crying out for it.

That's the good thing about Tory, he is not the type, unlike Ford or Harper, to see positive feedback as a front on his authority. In other words he is a reasonable person who is receptive to change to routes and stations. I think Smartrax is both smart and doable and will go ahead but using the UPX corridor and the Eglinton portion of the line is one of it's most expensive to build so it will come in well under budget.

The last time you stated that this line "must" break even I asked the question(s) at

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...n-Express-(Metrolinx-U-C)?p=920928#post920928

Never saw your answer so I will ask them again.

As for the AG, as i pointed out in the post linked below, it seems they were guessing/speculating just like the media is/was.

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showth...n-Express-(Metrolinx-U-C)?p=921135#post921135

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Not sure whether this belongs here or the fantasy thread, but seeing as it's looking increasingly likely that John Tory will be the next Mayor of Toronto, I figured I'd publish a map of what the system could look like with SmartTrack fully implemented

Nice map!

However I'm compelled to point out that SmartTrack adds nothing to our planned rapid transit system:

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Can anyone tell me exactly where the east side "Unilever" "Queen" and "Gerrard" stops are planned to be in the SmartTrack proposal?

Its obvious that the Along-Eglinton portion will get cancelled, and the number of stops up Kennedy will probably be reduced, but I suspect the remainder would get built (and would be useful)

SmartTrack will never be built.

SmartTrack will never be built.

SmartTrack will never be built.

The corridors are impossible, the funding plan is nonsensical and we already have a rapid transit plan that does exactly what SmartTrack does and more!

 

[ehlow]

SmartTrack will never be built.

SmartTrack will never be built.

SmartTrack will never be built.

The corridors are impossible, the funding plan is nonsensical and we already have a rapid transit plan that does exactly what SmartTrack does and more!

Keep repeating it

I don't see the fact that 80% of Smart Track is GO RER, which you seem to support, as a bad thing. What's so bad about the mayor having a transit plan which 80% aligns with what the province want to do anyways?

If both city council and the province are aligned on a given transit plan that which prioritizes those lines for GO RER, and does a few other modifications like through-routing the two lines and TTC fare, that seems like a good thing to me.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Keep repeating it

I don't see the fact that 80% of Smart Track is GO RER, which you seem to support, as a bad thing. What's so bad about the mayor having a transit plan which 80% aligns with what the province want to do anyways?

If both city council and the province are aligned on a given transit plan that which prioritizes those lines for GO RER, and does a few other modifications like through-routing the two lines and TTC fare, that seems like a good thing to me.

It's a bad thing because:

1) John Tory is lying to Torontonians. He's trying to pass this off as his own; he's trying (and succeeding) to convince us that he's added something meaningful to our transit plan.
2) His funding plan is utter nonsense
3) His proposed corridors won't work
4) This will just lead to more politics between us and the province. The time for politics has passed. We should quit talking and get this thing built

 

[ehlow]

It's a bad thing because:

1) John Tory is lying to Torontonians. He's trying to pass this off as his own; he's trying (and succeeding) to convince us that he's added something meaningful to our transit plan.
2) His funding plan is utter nonsense
3) His proposed corridors won't work
4) This will just lead to more politics between us and the province. The time for politics has passed. We should quit talking and get this thing built

1. Not really.. his website on SmartTrack has lot about GO RER and gives the province credit. But really, who cares who gets credit, a good idea is a good idea. What matters is making our transit system better so people's lives can be easier. Whether he takes credit or the province, likely they will share credit, it's not as important to me as having two way all day 15 min service on the GO corridors get built.

2. OK sure. Who's isn't? Anyways the province just passed a budget dedicating money be spent on transit, and they prioritized GO RER.

3. 80% of it is on GO tracks. If the Eglinton part doesn't happen, so be it, 80% of SmartTrack can still happen.

4. Actually, it seems like it will lead to agreement between the city and the province, since SmartTrack is 80% the same as GO RER anyways. I mean, the minister of infrastructure in the province endorsed Tory, I think it's a safe bet that many in the provincial Liberals prefer Tory. With SmartTrack they can just do some modifications to GO RER and prioritize those two corridors over the others and SmartTrack has happened. I'm guessing they would prefer that to Chow who's main platform is to re-open the debate on the Scarborough subway, especially considering all MPPs in Scarborough are Liberals who promised the Danforth extension now.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

6) I forgot to add that Tory's plan (if you can call it a plan) costs $8 Billion. If he's willing to recklessly toy around with $8 Billion for his own selfish political benefit, i cant imagine how reckless he'll be in office.

I'll reply to the rest of what you said soon. I'm in the middle of enjoying a delicious pizza

 

[WislaHD]

4. Actually, it seems like it will lead to agreement between the city and the province, since SmartTrack is 80% the same as GO RER anyways. I mean, the minister of infrastructure in the province endorsed Tory, I think it's a safe bet that many in the provincial Liberals prefer Tory. With SmartTrack they can just do some modifications to GO RER and prioritize those two corridors over the others and SmartTrack has happened. I'm guessing they would prefer that to Chow who's main platform is to re-open the debate on the Scarborough subway, especially considering all MPPs in Scarborough are Liberals who promised the Danforth extension now.

Add in a few additional stations at Liberty Village and elsewhere, and fare integration and I'm sold!

I don't get how Tory's team came up with 8 billions for SmartTrack anyway. It is essentially the province's plan which costs half that and if you discount the Eglinton portion of the line that won't happen under any circumstance, then it must amount to even less. Seriously, I'd like to see the math on that.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

There will already be a RER station at Liberty Village. Are you asking for additional stations there?

RER will have fare integration.

 

[ehlow]

6) I forgot to add that Tory's plan (if you can call it a plan) costs $8 Billion. If he's willing to recklessly toy around with $8 Billion for his own selfish political benefit, i cant imagine how reckless he'll be in office.

I'll reply to the rest of what you said soon. I'm in the middle of enjoying a delicious pizza

The 8 bill is likely BS.. Who knows what it'll cost if it hasn't been studied at all.

Add in a few additional stations at Liberty Village and elsewhere, and fare integration and I'm sold!

I don't get how Tory's team came up with 8 billions for SmartTrack anyway. It is essentially the province's plan which costs half that and if you discount the Eglinton portion of the line that won't happen under any circumstance, then it must amount to even less. Seriously, I'd like to see the math on that.

It already has a station at Liberty Village. However, I'm guessing stops will be added as actual study & design happen.

There will already be a RER station at Liberty Village. Are you asking for additional stations there?

RER will have fare integration.

As far as I know there hasn't been any announcement on what stops will be added (if any) for GO RER.

Re Fare Integration, there could be a difference between integrated fare (ex discounts if you take GO RER +TTC), and having it actually operated by TTC with TTC fare and free transfers within the TTC system.

Enjoy your pizza!

 

[WislaHD]

My mistake, I don't take GO and am entirely unfamiliar with the stations.

And yes it matters how fares are integrated. If they are operated by TTC with TTC Fare then GO suddenly becomes much more useful to those in the 416. Nobody in Liberty Village would take GO to downtown, but with Fare Integration, it suddenly becomes a viable alternative.

 

[Rainforest]

Add in a few additional stations at Liberty Village and elsewhere, and fare integration and I'm sold!

I don't get how Tory's team came up with 8 billions for SmartTrack anyway. It is essentially the province's plan which costs half that and if you discount the Eglinton portion of the line that won't happen under any circumstance, then it must amount to even less. Seriously, I'd like to see the math on that.

I suspect that Tory deliberately overstated the projected cost, to make room for some tunneling, particularly in downtown.

Engaging in a discussion on the routing and tunneling details during the election time would be risky, as it would confuse the voters and embolden the competitors. On the other hand, pitching a lower number during elections and then demanding much more after the elections would make him look silly and not in control.

Understanding that, his team could have suggested to high-ball the cost during the elections, and then use it to support tunneling.

 

[ssiguy2]

I still don't think it will come in even remotely close to $8 billion because after the Pan-Am games, I think there will be wide support {and no complaints from Queen's Park} that UPX be made part of Smartrax.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Doug has announced the Relief Line as his top priority.

I think I'm sold. A great man with a great transit vision. On October 27, I hope you'll join me in ensuring that Doug Ford is out next mayor