2014 Municipal Election: Toronto Mayoral Race

[nfitz]

A little while I tried to go way way back in the "Rob Ford's Toronto" thread, to read the comments of us horrified Torontonians prior to the 2010 election -- but my patience wore out.

There's also the 2010 election thread itself - urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/8018-Next-Mayor-of-Toronto which had most of the pre-election discussion.

What Rob Ford is, was discussed in detail. Numerous folks thought he'd embarrass the city internationally. Some though he'd find the job too stressful, and potentially life-threatening, unless he makes some serious life-style changes.

I'm a little surprised anyone here of all places would suggest that no one had a clue about how terrible Rob Ford would be. Unless one thought he'd only be substance-abusing foul-mouthed wife-beating international embarrassment rather than the even worse stuff ...

 

[Scarberian]

Ford is paying attention to them, the narrative is that no one else does.

This. Fair or not, Miller's meme was he ignored or didn't care about the burbs, because Toronto = Downtown core only. Ford actively, and probably enjoys antagonizing "leftist bicyclist pinko" downtown. IMO Both were\are stuck in their own political myopia, and as long as this divisive burbs vs downtown mentality continues, expect to see more "us vs them, now's our turn to punish the other side" political shenanigans.

Ford (both Rob and Doug) is a sham of a champion of the burbs, the poor, the immigrants, the minorities, and the voiceless. But he did not invent the Ford Nation that carried him in 2010 out of whole cloth. Dismissing all of them as nutjob extremists is also dangerous IMO, because some of the causes and grievances that gave Ford a podium is real, and will still be here even if Fofam is gone.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

There's also the 2010 election thread itself - urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/8018-Next-Mayor-of-Toronto which had most of the pre-election discussion.

What Rob Ford is, was discussed in detail. Numerous folks thought he'd embarrass the city internationally. Some though he'd find the job too stressful, and potentially life-threatening, unless he makes some serious life-style changes.

I'm a little surprised anyone here of all places would suggest that no one had a clue about how terrible Rob Ford would be. Unless one thought he'd only be substance-abusing foul-mouthed wife-beating international embarrassment rather than the even worse stuff ...

I think you knew at least that it would be that bad. I knew it would be. Anyone who gets drunk at the ACC.

This. Fair or not, Miller's meme was he ignored or didn't care about the burbs, because Toronto = Downtown core only. Ford actively, and probably enjoys antagonizing "leftist bicyclist pinko" downtown. IMO Both were\are stuck in their own political myopia, and as long as this divisive burbs vs downtown mentality continues, expect to see more "us vs them, now's our turn to punish the other side" political shenanigans.

Ford (both Rob and Doug) is a sham of a champion of the burbs, the poor, the immigrants, the minorities, and the voiceless. But he did not invent the Ford Nation that carried him in 2010 out of whole cloth. Dismissing all of them as nutjob extremists is also dangerous IMO, because some of the causes and grievances that gave Ford a podium is real, and will still be here even if Fofam is gone.

This is it. I think that Miller did ignore the burbs as much as see that downtown was the place to invest. Often in these debates we forget York, East York/Leaside, Yonge Eglinton, High Park, Riverdale and other areas that are not downtown but not fully suburban as well.

 

[nfitz]

This is it. I think that Miller did ignore the burbs as much as see that downtown was the place to invest.

I don't see this. On Transit, Miller screwed downtown, delaying the downtown relief line, and the Queens Quay East streetcar, and instead focused his energy on new LRT out in the burbs.

On what issue did Miller disproportionately focus $ on downtown in expense of the burbs?

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I don't see this. On Transit, Miller screwed downtown, delaying the downtown relief line, and the Queens Quay East streetcar, and instead focused his energy on new LRT out in the burbs.

On what issue did Miller disproportionately focus $ on downtown in expense of the burbs?

The DRL delay was not his fault. The garbage strike also affected the burbs the most.

 

[nfitz]

The DRL delay was not his fault.

He did nothing to expedite it. He did for the 4 LRT lines he pushed the hardest. How did he hurt the burbs?

The garbage strike also affected the burbs the most.

How does it impact the burbs the most? Surely those in the burbs have more space to store their garbage until the strike was over. And it was only a few weeks - how has the strike (most of the strikers were not garbage) had long-term impacts on the suburbs - other than saving money

 

[Scarberian]

On what issue did Miller disproportionately focus $ on downtown in expense of the burbs?

I mean this purely on an emotional gut level and yes my own biased recollection at the time. Miller became toxic to most suburban voters on two things. The garbage strike, and the Vehicle Registration Tax. IMO Miller would probably not have a good chance in 2010 despite polling numbers, the burbs from what I remember was seething to vote against him. We can certainly debate whether or not that's logical or actually makes sense. But it's almost beside the point, if we're talking about winning over hearts before minds aspect of politics.

Doug Ford is demonstrably a bully, a blowhard businessman who can't close a deal, has troubles conveying factually accurate sentences, and his style of consensus building is yelling or threatening people. Yet his name is on the ballot for mayor, and his % is not in the single digits.

Ignoring a segment or area is IMO a fairly fast and sure way to create deep resentment. It's what helped Rob win the mayoral race in 2010. The nightmare scenario for me is echoes of 2010 in 2014. Chow is in for a rude awakening IMO if she thinks she can win just by virtue of not being a Ford, and "staying above the fray" and coming up through the middle. She might become the new Joey Pants if she continues her approach. We'll see if Tory can beat his habit of imploding at the last leg of the race. Bluntly speaking, both Chow and Tory are not impressing me, and that is somewhat worrisome considering who they're running against.

 

[nfitz]

I mean this purely on an emotional gut level and yes my own biased recollection at the time. Miller became toxic to most suburban voters on two things. The garbage strike, and the Vehicle Registration Tax.

The question was on what issue did Miller disproportionately focus $ on downtown in expense of the burbs. Diverting the discussion to talk about other reasons people might not like Miller doesn't answer the question.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

He did nothing to expedite it. He did for the 4 LRT lines he pushed the hardest. How did he hurt the burbs?

LRT was not is is still not popular there.

How does it impact the burbs the most? Surely those in the burbs have more space to store their garbage until the strike was over. And it was only a few weeks - how has the strike (most of the strikers were not garbage) had long-term impacts on the suburbs - other than saving money

Most of Toronto lives in burbs and had their garbage stinking up the parks.

I mean this purely on an emotional gut level and yes my own biased recollection at the time. Miller became toxic to most suburban voters on two things. The garbage strike, and the Vehicle Registration Tax. IMO Miller would probably not have a good chance in 2010 despite polling numbers, the burbs from what I remember was seething to vote against him. We can certainly debate whether or not that's logical or actually makes sense. But it's almost beside the point, if we're talking about winning over hearts before minds aspect of politics.

Doug Ford is demonstrably a bully, a blowhard businessman who can't close a deal, has troubles conveying factually accurate sentences, and his style of consensus building is yelling or threatening people. Yet his name is on the ballot for mayor, and his % is not in the single digits.

Ignoring a segment or area is IMO a fairly fast and sure way to create deep resentment. It's what helped Rob win the mayoral race in 2010. The nightmare scenario for me is echoes of 2010 in 2014. Chow is in for a rude awakening IMO if she thinks she can win just by virtue of not being a Ford, and "staying above the fray" and coming up through the middle. She might become the new Joey Pants if she continues her approach. We'll see if Tory can beat his habit of imploding at the last leg of the race. Bluntly speaking, both Chow and Tory are not impressing me, and that is somewhat worrisome considering who they're running against.

This

 

[nfitz]

LRT was not is is still not popular there.

It might not be ... but how does this dissproportionately focus $ on downtown in expense of the burbs?

Most of Toronto lives in burbs and had their garbage stinking up the parks.

How is this a suburban issue? The biggest complaints I heard about garbage stinking up parks was at Christie Pits and at Ted Reeve. In the case of the latter, a parking lot surrounded by industrial lands when they drew up the old list of facilities was instead surrounded by homes. In the case of the former, there were nearby houses.

Surely, these issues would be lesser in the less dense suburban areas. How was it worse in suburban areas? I hear that some houses in the suburbs even have these large rooms to store their cars in, that could be used for garbage!

 

[Silence&Motion]

By all means, please don't let silly things like facts get in the way of how your "purely emotional gut" feels about the issue.

 

[Scarberian]

The question was on what issue did Miller disproportionately focus $ on downtown in expense of the burbs. Diverting the discussion to talk about other reasons people might not like Miller doesn't answer the question.

Then you're not asking the right question. No really, you want a logical answer to a logical question yes? Except that politics is not all about logic, and perception makes reality in this game. But here is an answer. Anything, and everything. You name it, and the feeling was if it's anything for downtown, it was being subsidized by the suburbs, while the burbs gets nothing. It's not logical, it's emotional.

How does it impact the burbs the most? Surely those in the burbs have more space to store their garbage until the strike was over. And it was only a few weeks - how has the strike (most of the strikers were not garbage) had long-term impacts on the suburbs - other than saving money

It was in the summer. It created a literal stench. People were more than slightly inconvenienced by garbage piling up, because in reality not everyone in the burbs has a two car garage and tons of space. That stink fair or not, became associated with Miller. I mean in an almost pavlovian way. The only way Miller could have made the burbs angrier was if he personally threw a dirty diaper at people's face and yelled "that's what I think of the suburbs!! AHAHAHAhaha it's Miller Time!"

 

[Scarberian]

By all means, please don't let silly things like facts get in the way of how your "purely emotional gut" feels about the issue.

If that was addressed to me, by all means, let me allow to rephrase that clearer. When I wrote "purely emotional gut", that was the reaction I saw from people during the garbage strike. Clear enough?

 

[spider]

I mean this purely on an emotional gut level and yes my own biased recollection at the time. Miller became toxic to most suburban voters on two things. The garbage strike, and the Vehicle Registration Tax. IMO Miller would probably not have a good chance in 2010 despite polling numbers, the burbs from what I remember was seething to vote against him. We can certainly debate whether or not that's logical or actually makes sense. But it's almost beside the point, if we're talking about winning over hearts before minds aspect of politics.

Doug Ford is demonstrably a bully, a blowhard businessman who can't close a deal, has troubles conveying factually accurate sentences, and his style of consensus building is yelling or threatening people. Yet his name is on the ballot for mayor, and his % is not in the single digits.

Ignoring a segment or area is IMO a fairly fast and sure way to create deep resentment. It's what helped Rob win the mayoral race in 2010. The nightmare scenario for me is echoes of 2010 in 2014. Chow is in for a rude awakening IMO if she thinks she can win just by virtue of not being a Ford, and "staying above the fray" and coming up through the middle. She might become the new Joey Pants if she continues her approach. We'll see if Tory can beat his habit of imploding at the last leg of the race. Bluntly speaking, both Chow and Tory are not impressing me, and that is somewhat worrisome considering who they're running against.

Precisely!

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

If that was addressed to me, by all means, let me allow to rephrase that clearer. When I wrote "purely emotional gut", that was the reaction I saw from people during the garbage strike. Clear enough?

I lived in Riverdale during the strike, watched Miller when he gave live updates. I thought he was completely reasonable the whole time, as did my wife. We were in a minority of two in the city -- EVERYONE we knew blew up at Miller, 'cause he let the garbagemen strike, and didn't get enough concessions. Which makes zero sense, naturally. It was a full town temper tantrum.

The other issue -- LRT -- is even more bizarre. I cannot fathom why anyone would be anti-LRT, yet Toronto has allowed itself to become the only place on the planet that hates LRT on principle. Remember, Scarborough was against an LRT that did not run on the road in most of its route in Scarborough. Again, completely infantile.

Toronto is just a weird, weird electorate, and sometimes unhinged.