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2008 Federal Election: GTA Voting Patterns

That's why last election I voted Conservative... a decision I regret.

I look to the future. I think it is foolish for anyone to be committed to voting to one party for their lifetime. My vote must be earned. I vote for who is best for the country. I vote for whose policies are good for my future and my children's future.

Right now I see the Conservatives on their spending binge, attack ads, etc, and I think, are these people using such frivilous and childish behaviour the people I want to run my country? Nope!

ABC! I haven't yet decided where I'm going from that, but the C is out.
 
I am quite surprised the Harper campaign is using the anti-intellectualism strategy.


It has never worked especially against Trudeau.


However it does not help that you look like a wimp (Dion)

Trudeau may have been an intellectual or an elitist but he was not a wimp.
 
However it does not help that you look like a wimp (Dion)

How old are we? Aren't we past the grade school mantra that the Bully can be class pres if he wants to be? Wouldn't we be better off with the Class Nerd running the show instead of the School Bully?

As a Canadian, I'd rather be represented on the world stage with a leader who doesn't emply bully tactics. Should it matter if they appear as a wimp? A wimpy nerd could still lead a nation.
 
true indeed musters ... a wimpy nerd can lead a nation, but that nerd has to show leadership, take position, and be charismatic ... and I am not naming anyone here :D
 
However, John Chretien has shown being a bully is a political goldmine.

Imo many people only like the guy because he choked that protester.





Billclennett.jpg
 
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/views/story.html?id=244d2749-4441-4150-aeb2-8a1d8208b037

Dan Gardner . Harper economics

Dan Gardner
The Ottawa Citizen

Wednesday, September 17, 2008

Stephen Harper has a masters degree in economics. He is conservative. He says he understands how markets function and he prefers market solutions to public policy problems.

Gregory Mankiw is a professor at Harvard University and a world-renowned economist. He was chairman of U.S. President George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers and adviser to Mitt Romney's campaign for the Republican presidential nomination. Mankiw definitely understands how markets function and he, too, prefers market solutions to public policy problems.

One might think Stephen Harper and Gregory Mankiw would agree on energy taxes. But one would be wrong.

Stephen Harper says the Liberal "green shift" proposal -- a carbon tax on most forms of energy with matching cuts to income, corporate and other taxes -- could do "catastrophic" damage to the economy. He is proposing instead to cut the federal tax on diesel, which will, he says, reduce shipping costs and the costs of goods in stores.

That sort of sounds like the kind of advice an economist would offer. Don't add taxes. Reduce them. Get government out of the way. Let the market provide.

But Gregory Mankiw suggested something considerably different when I called him at his Harvard office. Gas should be taxed much more, he said. So should lots of other energy-related products. But be sure to off-set those taxes with cuts to income and other taxes.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it? But let's not wander back into politics just yet because Mr. Mankiw knows little about Canadian politics and, quite sensibly, cares less.

His reasoning is straight out of Economics 101. It starts with "externalities."

Take a Sunday drive and your car emits various gases, including carbon dioxide. This adds to the rising atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide that are the principal cause of climate change. But do you pay for having contributed to the flooding of Bangladesh? No, you don't. That is an externality: A cost suffered by someone other than the responsible party.

Taxing people to ensure they pay for the external costs they impose on others is fair, but fairness is more the bailiwick of philosophers than economists. What economists care about is the efficient allocation of resources, which markets do wonderfully -- except when there are externalities involved. So making people pay for externalities improves market efficiency.

Of course, energy taxes mean higher energy costs. That hurts people and damages economies. The solution? For every dollar of increased energy tax, there must be a dollar cut from the burden of income or other taxes.

OK, some may say. I get the theory but I think climate change is bunk. So the whole thing falls down.

But it doesn't. Aside from climate change, energy use inflicts all sorts of external costs. "One might debate the science behind climate change," Mankiw notes, "but I don't think you can doubt that having more cars on the road, congestion get worse and accidents get worse." (It's worth noting the Liberal plan would not increase the existing tax on gasoline. Only other energy sources would be hit. Why is that? Politics. Only gasoline prices are advertised on large signs at the side of the road.)

Now, the Conservatives will protest that they've already introduced a plan for American-style fuel efficiency standards, which will ultimately reduce carbon dioxide emissions. But what they don't mention is that this will increase the cost of producing cars, which will be reflected in the price tag. So consumers will pay just as they would with a carbon tax -- except the government will raise no revenue and there will be no off-setting tax cuts.

The same problem vexes cap-and-trade, which is an alternative to carbon taxes supported in principle by everyone from the NDP to the Conservatives and Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty. If emission credits were auctioned off by the government, a cap-and-trade system would be almost identical to a carbon tax. But for various political and practical reasons, cap-and-trade systems seldom auction credits. Instead, credits are given out to existing polluters based on current emissions and so, in the end, the costs of a cap-and-trade system are passed along to consumers but the government raises no revenue and there are no off-setting cuts to income and other taxes.

So why is the cap-and-trade option preferred by almost all politicians? As usual, it's politics. Under cap-and-trade, politicians can claim they are hitting "big polluters" while leaving the ordinary person unscathed. That's nonsense, of course. Costs borne by big polluters will be passed on, so the ordinary person pays either way. But with cap-and-trade, unlike a carbon tax, the cost to the ordinary person is hidden.

This is all orthodox economics, Mankiw insists -- a 2006 survey of American Economic Association members found two-thirds agreed that "the U.S. should increase energy taxes" -- and so the issue shouldn't be cast as left versus right. It's more like "experts versus laypeople. There is a big gap between what economists view as very sensible and non-controversial policy and what the public is willing to swallow." Closing that gap is "fundamentally an issue of education."

I wouldn't be so sure about that last point. After all, a masters degree in economics hasn't done much for Stephen Harper.
 
Re Gardner's article: so what? Economists are notorious for never agreeing with each other. Old saying: Place all of the economists end to end, and you won't reach a conclusion.
 
I don't think all that much about the article was controversial, except perhaps the case for emissions reduction assuming AGW is not a concern.
 
I think the one person of all of us here who really bears listening to is lord mandeep. He seems to really have his finger on the pulse of the average swing voter, in particular the swing voter that Harper is targeting to win. He even lives in one of Harper's top targeted areas.
 
Harper is trying hard to win this area but he won't.

The incumbent MP is imo officially unbeatable.


Imo, Dion is seen as a wimp however a lot of people who are really starting to pay attention to the election are wary of Harper having a majority.


I see the polls closing up, however conservative victory is assured.
 
I am surprised to hear several family members who are dyed in the wool Liberals who will be voting for Harper this time. There seems to be consensus around the dining table that Dion's a 'weak leader'. I wonder about the policies but I don't think of him as weak.

At least the Liberals are finally going to start talking about the economy...you'd think they would have used the one topic they are strong on and milked it for all it was worth. Instead, they use the Green Shift, a file on which they have a terrible record. Good idea perhaps, bad timing.... People don't really care about global warming when the economy stands on the brink of a recession and our biggest export market is experiencing a meltdown.
 
"There seems to be consensus around the dining table that Dion's a 'weak leader'."

People are, in general, easily programmed sheep. This idea is only so pervasive because the Tories spent two years fostering it. And the ads they used to do so generally employed quotes that are not much worse than things you can dig out of Harper's 'firewall' past when he was running the ultra-conservative NCC. Funny actually, he recently referred to his time at the NCC as 'running a medium-size business' (NCC is non-profit).
 
"There seems to be consensus around the dining table that Dion's a 'weak leader'."

People are, in general, easily programmed sheep. This idea is only so pervasive because the Tories spent two years fostering it. And the ads they used to do so generally employed quotes that are not much worse than things you can dig out of Harper's 'firewall' past when he was running the ultra-conservative NCC. Funny actually, he recently referred to his time at the NCC as 'running a medium-size business' (NCC is non-profit).

As much as I disagree with the characterization of Dion as weak....the Liberals are finally getting a taste of their own medicine. They tried to brand every Conservative leader as 'scary', un-Canadian, and having a hidden agenda. It is rather ironic to see them now have to fight off Conservative branding attempts of their leader.

It's all part of the political game I guess. The Liberals just aren't as successful this time around.
 

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