acetradamus
New Member
Oh my! What shiny fins you have!
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1 Bloor East (Bazis International) for Great Gulf see One Bloor - Real Estate -
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acetradamus
New Member
Just remember that every unit sold at 1 Bloor East could have been potential future sales at better quality projects (cooler skyscrapers for u skyline geeks). Toronto doesn't have infinite capacity to absorb all these high priced units all at once. Sooner or later the well will run dry.
Even if you're just a skyscraper enthusiast, you should be concerned that the market isn't using discretion with regards to lower quality/unproven product.
If you consider yourself a true Toronto skyline fan, then answer this question.
Given that Toronto will be able to support the development of X amount of high-end residential mega projects in the current real estate cycle, is 1 Bloor East something you really want to see at Yonge/Bloor at 800-900ft?
This tower could be as tall as Scotia Plaza, is it aesthetically deserving of such prominence?
Even if you're just a skyscraper enthusiast, you should be concerned that the market isn't using discretion with regards to lower quality/unproven product.
If you consider yourself a true Toronto skyline fan, then answer this question.
Given that Toronto will be able to support the development of X amount of high-end residential mega projects in the current real estate cycle, is 1 Bloor East something you really want to see at Yonge/Bloor at 800-900ft?
This tower could be as tall as Scotia Plaza, is it aesthetically deserving of such prominence?
I
investor
Guest
"Toronto" can't absorb a fraction of these units. "Toronto" won't be occupying these units at all. "Toronto" buyers aren't stupid enough to pay $900 per square foot for something they can buy for $600 per square foot.
"Toronto" is a great city.
Granny
Active Member
Ahhh!
My faith is restored.
So there are people on this site with common sense who recognize elephant doo doo when they see it.
My work is done here.
See you all at the next 'Parade'
My faith is restored.
So there are people on this site with common sense who recognize elephant doo doo when they see it.
My work is done here.
See you all at the next 'Parade'
MisterF
Senior Member
Municipalities do get letters of credit or similar securities. Maybe not for the what Invester's talking about but to ensure that the site plan is completed.
Mike in TO
Senior Member
Those are specific to agreements signed for items in the planning stages such as the site plan you mentioned or for section 37 agreements - they don't have anything to do with the list of concerns that investor mentioned. Municipalities don't have control over those aspects of development, nor should they.
Irishmonk
Senior Member
The sooner this current boom ends the better. When the next one begins 5 or 10 years down the road, this city, one hopes, will have a design review panel firmly ensconced, and we won't have to worry about aesthetic disasters like Infinity, Success and, yes, 1BE. Y&B is an important corner; let's not ruin it for the next 100 years with a POS like this current abomination. Let's try and think a little further ahead.
lowesthangingfruit
Active Member
Wow, this project has really touched a nerve by the traffic it generated.
To help me (as my mind only works on simple concepts) understand this better, I think it comes down to this:
Would I buy into this ??
ANS: Probably not at these valuations.
Would someone else buy into this ??
ANS: Yes.
So who of the two above is "smarter" ?? How should I know ?? And that is why it is called a "market". There are buyers, there are sellers. There is a bid price, and an ask price. If they match, a deal is made.
Then there are those that use the term "speculators" as if they are the scums of the earth. Come on, the fact of the matter is, we need speculators. They are the market forces that drive the prices to the moon,....and they are going to be the same market forces that will make prices dive to new lows. Don't ask me when or how, just sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.
I
investor
Guest
The foregoing depiction is an accurate read of the pattern. What you've omitted is that speculators are a very negative force in a market as they ultimately wreak havoc with the orderly functions of the business. Many, many, people will suffer as the destruction in value is not contained to their own greed. Consider all the ancillary professionals associated with the development business who will be affected by a sudden and prolonged work stoppage. It's not just the lazy guy grasping for the 'low hanging fruit'.
lowesthangingfruit
Active Member
I don't view speculators as being positive nor negative. I just accept that they are part of the market forces now and help to generate capital appreciation (on the up side) and deep value discounts (on the down side). Yes, it would be nice to have markets trend steadily upwards with little volatility, but that is an unrealistic expectation as all markets are cyclical. Speculators simply accentuate those patterns. I think of them as the "hedge funds" of the real estate market.
As for ancillary professions and jobs getting hit, you are correct that some pain can be felt. It's already happening now in the US as you hear news of major financial institutions canning their CEO etc. Heads will roll no doubt. But i look at it this way. These same industry insiders SHOULD have even better insight into this market than someone like me who is an outside amateur. I would expect the smart money to be cashing out at these higher valuations and keeping their powder dry for better valuations to come along. They SHOULD have already made their money is what I am saying. To try and hang on and get the last 10% of whatever that may or may not come is getting into the realm of pure greed,....and we all know what happens to pigs in the end.
As for ancillary professions and jobs getting hit, you are correct that some pain can be felt. It's already happening now in the US as you hear news of major financial institutions canning their CEO etc. Heads will roll no doubt. But i look at it this way. These same industry insiders SHOULD have even better insight into this market than someone like me who is an outside amateur. I would expect the smart money to be cashing out at these higher valuations and keeping their powder dry for better valuations to come along. They SHOULD have already made their money is what I am saying. To try and hang on and get the last 10% of whatever that may or may not come is getting into the realm of pure greed,....and we all know what happens to pigs in the end.
I
investor
Guest
No sympathy here for the head of Citigroup. I'm referring to the marketing, architectural, legal, engineering firms that ramped up hiring for the speculative building boom only to be forced to downsize as it fizzles.
The realities of the free market I know I know, but the sharp pains of sudden movements can be far more painful (financially and psychologically) as a result of this innocuous (your characterization, not mine) breed of herded sheep.
lowesthangingfruit
Active Member
I hear you investor. All I am pointing out is whether you or I like it or not, speculators are going to be market forces to contend with and since I personally cannot control that factor, I might as well make use of it the best I can.
As for ancillary services/businesses getting clobbered, yes, I think some will feel pain. But I look at it this way. It provides a cleansing effect. Those businesses that were weak or only dependent on 1 stream of income from the residential real estate boom perhaps SHOULD downsize or even go out of business. Kinda like those speculative upstart tech companies that rode the internet craze up then imploded with the tech bubble burst. We needed to get rid of the froth to separate quality from just plain crazy. I am not an industry insider but if I were in that sector of business that you fear will be getting hit, I would be rotating out of residential real estate and looking at public infrastructure plays as shit like bridges and highways are collapsing around us.....sounds like a pretty good market to get into imo.
fullyawake
Banned
It appears that this fellow was correct. The 1 Bloor East deal is dead.
You heard it here first.
cdr108
Senior Member
CGM
Active Member
^... Continue reading from here: www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=1057&page=138
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