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Cycling infrastructure (Separated bike lanes)

Admiral Beez said:
One long-term benefit we may see with the total tear out of our bike lanes is a total rethink of bike infrastructure by the mid to late 2030s. Toronto's experience with bike lanes is such a hodgepodge mess of sometimes just paint, sometimes bollards, or curbs or metal railings, sometimes with separations ending before intersections, sometimes with bike-only traffic signals, sometimes not, with bike lanes often in the gutter. Clearly were we learning on the go. For example, we never seem to be able to combine streetcar ROWs and curb separated bike lanes, instead we put in the ROWs without any thought to bikes whatsoever - demonstrating that the different branches of government have an issue working together.

But the demand for bicycle infrastructure is not going away, and by the mid 2030s Torontonians (by then closing on 4 million of us) will likely be demanding safe and efficient cycle options. My hope is that by then the MTO has clear guidelines or regs and that we can apply the best bike infrastructure from across the globe, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel or learn on the go. But we must first endure a decade of darkness.
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It all comes down to money. If the city only built the perfect bike lanes that you envision we would not have most of the network we have now as the city simply could not afford it. Compromises had to be made to expand the bike lane network with less than ideal infrastructure to save money to avoid full road reconstruction and to provide some level of protection for cyclists sooner, rather that 10 years down the line. It is an incremental approach, built around already existing infrastructure that has to be accommodated, that's why it seems like a mess.

Booth the Finch and Crosstown LRT's have bike lanes by the way, maybe not perfect curb separated ones you desire, but they do. Spadina could not possibly have one without a car lane removed, same with St. Clair. Something that will no longer be allowed by default. The Queensway ROW has bike lanes as well, again not curb separated, but the wouldn't say there was "no thought to bikes whatsoever". The QQ ROW has the MGT.
 
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bearcat said:
Booth the Finch and Crosstown LRT's have bike lanes by the way....
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No, not LRTs. Streetcar ROWs. With one small exception south of High Park, and excluding the multiuse path on Queen's Quay, I don't see a single instance of where streetcar ROWs and separated bike lines run together. St. Clair desperately needs this, as when I drive along this route I see cyclists dangerously squeezed by the ROW and car traffic. Clearly when we were planning and designing for street ROWs on St. Clair, Spadina, etc. we gave no thought to bike use. And look at King Street, I've seen cyclists trying to squeeze between streetcars and planters the city puts in the gutter lane.
 
Admiral Beez said:
No, not LRTs. Streetcar ROWs. With one small exception south of High Park, and excluding the multiuse path on Queen's Quay, I don't see a single instance of where streetcar ROWs and separated bike lines run together. St. Clair desperately needs this, as when I drive along this route I see cyclists dangerously squeezed by the ROW and car traffic. Clearly when we were planning and designing for street ROWs on St. Clair, Spadina, etc. we gave no thought to bike use. And look at King Street, I've seen cyclists trying to squeeze between streetcars and planters the city puts in the gutter lane.
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King Street is a temporary design until there is money and a plan to redo the street properly in my understanding. Spadina was opened in 1997 and St. Clair in 2010. I don't think either say anything about the state of current bike infrastructure planning by the city, or how they would be designed today. If you look at the plans for the Broadview extension that includes I believe curb separated bike lanes.

I am sure the city has a lot to learn. However what will the city learn from having in my opinion very well designed brand new bike lane on University torn out?
 
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Admiral Beez said:
No, not LRTs. Streetcar ROWs. With one small exception south of High Park, and excluding the multiuse path on Queen's Quay, I don't see a single instance of where streetcar ROWs and separated bike lines run together. St. Clair desperately needs this, as when I drive along this route I see cyclists dangerously squeezed by the ROW and car traffic. Clearly when we were planning and designing for street ROWs on St. Clair, Spadina, etc. we gave no thought to bike use. And look at King Street, I've seen cyclists trying to squeeze between streetcars and planters the city puts in the gutter lane.
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Dundas too, although it's only small sections that are currently separated.
 
MisterF said:
Oh I see, you were referring to streetcars in their own right of way separated from traffic. My bad, I missed that part.
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Don't worry, when it came to including curb-separated bike lanes alongside the streetcar ROWs, so did the city's planners.

Of course we could just have bikes and streetcars share the same ROWs - imagine the below on St. Clair or Spadina. The bikes would need to keep up or move aside.

Princes%20Street%20cycle%20lane%20picture%20credit%20-%20Magnificent%20Octopus%20Flickr_Creative%20Commons.jpg


That'll grind Doug Ford's gears as he hates streetcars as much as bikes. Add a healthy meal option in the mix and we'll ruin his day!

666a126aa57e8.image.jpg
 
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Question: Assuming that this bill passes (big assumption) what is the process to actually dismantle the lanes? What would happen if the City fails to budget for reconstruction or keeps deferring it? What, if anything, can the Province do if City Hall ignores them?
 
evandyk said:
Did you guys bike by Bloor and Dufferin around 3 p.m.? A big bike ride passed by, so I cheered and hollered.
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Yes! That was one of the 3 concurrent rides that happened following the protest.

Brought my drone along today
 
rdaner said:
Question: Assuming that this bill passes (big assumption) what is the process to actually dismantle the lanes? What would happen if the City fails to budget for reconstruction or keeps deferring it? What, if anything, can the Province do if City Hall ignores them?
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I believe recent amendments to the bill allow the Province to sidestep the city and directly remove the lanes itself.
 
duffo said:
I believe recent amendments to the bill allow the Province to sidestep the city and directly remove the lanes itself.
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More likely is that the city drags its feet for a year on the "redesign" planning, the province threatens to do it themselves, then the city produces the design and schedules the actual work in a couple of years from now. After all, there's a backlog of more important work to be done on the roads, and resources are limited.
 
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