Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[micheal_can]

It is probably way to early to say with any certainty. The question is how many people would take a bus 125 km east to transfer to the train north or south instead of taking a direct bus north or south. Maybe if they are going to an intermediary stop that they can't get to directly on one bus, but for travel to/from Toronto or Cochrane from/to Sudbury it would probably be better to just take a direct bus.

That question is valid. I would hope that they have a way to figure out that. There is enough population that might take it. My hope would be that there is one in place as a trial. Having a bus from Sudbury meet the train also would give the province a metric for a train to Sudbury...eventually.

 

[lenaitch]

A discussion with some friends about the future Northlander service, a question came up - is it expected that a ONR bus will connect from Sudbury to North Bay to meet the train?And of course, would one come back from North Bay after the train arrives?
My thinking is yes, but I am wondering if anything official has been released about that.

Their webpage has a lot of information, including current bus schedules, media releases, etc. Failing that, their 'contact us' page might be helpful.

Very quickly, one of their M-F w/b (NB-Sud) runs has a time close to the proposed s/b train time (0545); nothing for n/b (2340).

 

[micheal_can]

Their webpage has a lot of information, including current bus schedules, media releases, etc. Failing that, their 'contact us' page might be helpful.

Very quickly, one of their M-F w/b (NB-Sud) runs has a time close to the proposed s/b train time (0545); nothing for n/b (2340).

I did look to the website for the information. I was wondering if there was something public I missed.

It sounds like a realignment of one schedule would be easy enough. As far as the other time, adding one more bus might make some sense by then on its own.

 

[micheal_can]

What I would like to see is on opening day, that the buses between North Bay and Sudbury are aligned well enough to allow for a seamless transfer between the 2. My hope is that doing this causes enough demand for buses that a train is explored between Sudbury and North Bay. It could even continue south as a semi express, stopping at the higher ridership stations if any exist between Union and North Bay.
For context, I would use the bus/train setup over driving about 4 times a year. And I am just one person in a city of over 165.000.

 

[lenaitch]

What I would like to see is on opening day, that the buses between North Bay and Sudbury are aligned well enough to allow for a seamless transfer between the 2. My hope is that doing this causes enough demand for buses that a train is explored between Sudbury and North Bay. It could even continue south as a semi express, stopping at the higher ridership stations if any exist between Union and North Bay.
For context, I would use the bus/train setup over driving about 4 times a year. And I am just one person in a city of over 165.000.

To meet a s/b station time of 0545, a bus would have to leave Sudbury at least 0415. I wonder how many people would be willing to do that.

 

[micheal_can]

To meet a s/b station time of 0545, a bus would have to leave Sudbury at least 0415. I wonder how many people would be willing to do that.

What time would I need to meet the Canadian in Capreol to get to Toronto? (Hint, about the same time)
Obviously not ideal, but, at least it can be a test as to whether people are willing to use the service enough.

 

[roger1818]

A bus from Ottawa that meets the NB train (and a bus to Ottawa the connects from the SB train) would be more interesting, as there isn't a direct bus from Ottawa to Cochrane (like there is from Sudbury). The current bus leaves Ottawa at 10:15 and arrives in North Bay at 15:25. That's a long wait for a 23:40 departure.

For the return trip, the current bus leaves North Bay at 17:45, so it would be a long wait to connect from a 05:45 train.

Brining back the second daily bus (operated by Greyhound) would likely help.

The bus to/from Ottawa does connect with the current bus from/to Cochrane. I am sure ONR has data on transfers, so will know if adding a bus to connect to the train would be worthwhile or not (ignoring any O-D benefits from the improved frequency).

 

[micheal_can]

A bus from Ottawa that meets the NB train (and a bus to Ottawa the connects from the SB train) would be more interesting, as there isn't a direct bus from Ottawa to Cochrane (like there is from Sudbury). The current bus leaves Ottawa at 10:15 and arrives in North Bay at 15:25. That's a long wait for a 23:40 departure.

For the return trip, the current bus leaves North Bay at 17:45, so it would be a long wait to connect from a 05:45 train.

Brining back the second daily bus (operated by Greyhound) would likely help.

The bus to/from Ottawa does connect with the current bus from/to Cochrane. I am sure ONR has data on transfers, so will know if adding a bus to connect to the train would be worthwhile or not (ignoring any O-D benefits from the improved frequency).

Ideally,yes, a bus from both the east and west meets both trains. To me, this is a great way to show whether more bus services or more train services could be added and still be useful.

One other thought is that I hope there is some sort of deal with Via to be able to book on both, or have some sort of way of seamless connections in Union. Someone from Ottawa might want to go through Union with Via and then up on the Northlander instead of the bus. The key will be to make the connections at Union and North Bay as seamless as possible.

 

[ShonTron]

It is probably way to early to say with any certainty. The question is how many people would take a bus 125 km east to transfer to the train north or south instead of taking a direct bus north or south. Maybe if they are going to an intermediary stop that they can't get to directly on one bus, but for travel to/from Toronto or Cochrane from/to Sudbury it would probably be better to just take a direct bus.

The only way I see it working is as a second daily Sudbury-North Bay-Ottawa bus timed to meet the trains.

 

[micheal_can]

The only way I see it working is as a second daily Sudbury-North Bay-Ottawa bus timed to meet the trains.

Which a bus leaving at 0430 ish would get to Ottawa by 1030. That would work the same as the train schedule getting into Toronto for those that wish to make it to an appointment but not need to spend the night.

 

[roger1818]

The only way I see it working is as a second daily Sudbury-North Bay-Ottawa bus timed to meet the trains.

A single Sudbury-North Bay-Ottawa bus timed to meet the trains both was only works if both the bus and train can keep their schedule with reasonable reliability. Even then the bus would likely have to have at least a 1 hour layover in North Bay to ensure people on the bus can reliably transfer to the train (even if the bus is running late) and people on the train can reliably transfer to the bus (even if the train is running late). You would likely be better off having separate Sudbury-North Bay and North Bay-Ottawa busses that connect to/from the train.

 

[micheal_can]

A single Sudbury-North Bay-Ottawa bus timed to meet the trains both was only works if both the bus and train can keep their schedule with reasonable reliability. Even then the bus would likely have to have at least a 1 hour layover in North Bay to ensure people on the bus can reliably transfer to the train (even if the bus is running late) and people on the train can reliably transfer to the bus (even if the train is running late). You would likely be better off having separate Sudbury-North Bay and North Bay-Ottawa busses that connect to/from the train.

That assumes that there won't be thru riders. Using that example, there could be the hour dwell at the station for buses, but you can continue when the train arrives beyond.

 

[roger1818]

That assumes that there won't be thru riders.

I wasn't making any such assumptions. The thing is if you have a 1 hour layover, few, if any will remain on the bus for the layover. If everyone is getting off anyway, it doesn't matter which bus they get back on.

Using that example, there could be the hour dwell at the station for buses, but you can continue when the train arrives beyond.

You could potentially hold the bus because of a late train, but having it leave early because the train is on time would be problematic for people wanting to catch the bus at a later stop, as they might miss the bus if it is early.

 

[micheal_can]

I wasn't making any such assumptions. The thing is if you have a 1 hour layover, few, if any will remain on the bus for the layover. If everyone is getting off anyway, it doesn't matter which bus they get back on.



You could potentially hold the bus because of a late train, but having it leave early because the train is on time would be problematic for people wanting to catch the bus at a later stop, as they might miss the bus if it is early.

I think we are saying the same things, but seeing it different. From both directions, you should be able to get to and from North Bay to meet the train, and to get to and from your destination. So, someone going from Mattawa to Toronto can also get from Toronto to Mattawa Someone from Sturgeon Falls going to Toronto can also get from Toronto to Sturgeon Falls. This would mean someone at that time should also be able to get to and from Mattawa and Sturgeon Falls. Whether they change buses or wait in the North Bay station would be up to the ONR to decide which is best.

 

[Garuda]

I'd like to see a Sudbury - Sturgeon Falls - North Bay - Toronto train that runs on the off days for the Northlander. Thereby giving North Bay and southwards 7 days a week service.