Transit Fantasy Maps

[robmausser]

I made a GO Map with the idea of being something similar to what you would see in a European/Asian Commuter system where they operate more like metro services than what we consider commuter rail. There are more stops on all lines as commuter rail across the pond have closer stop spacing due to being electrified as well as being essentially pseudo-subway lines. Whenever I do these types of maps I find it amazing to just look at the severe difference in development between the east end of the GTHA and the west end. As well I also see a severe flaw in the system, that being there is only 1 major terminal and all services serve it. To me this is something that needs to be changed as most major cities/regions tend to have multiple major terminals. While doing the map I really wanted to connect the Niagara Falls line to Hamilton instead of Union for the fact that I see Hamilton as a possible major hub and a sort of gateway to southern Ontario. However the trackage linking Hamilton to West Harbour doesn't exist and isntalling it would either require tunneling under Dundurn Street or creating a tight curve track near where the Lakeshore line splits. Lastly I included the Peterborough (Mid-Town) line, the Bolton Line, and a re-activated Belt Line as I am a big supporter of a Loop Line being built.

View attachment 222323

I'd add an extension to Cambridge along the Milton line, extension to Uxbridge along the Stouffville Line, extension to Bloomington along the Richmond Hill Line, a spur off the Milton or Kitchener line to Orangeville, and an extension to Collingwood along the Barrie Line.

 

[MrGoose]

I've seen this idea of needing an alternative to Union Station floated around a bit. So taking some inspiration from London's Cross Rail project and NYC's Penn and Grand Central Station, I think that Toronto could construct our own version of a Cross Rail/Penn Station proposal, running GO trains underneath downtown to reach a brand new terminal/through station.

Potential candidates for TO Cross Rail station would have to be large, relatively unoccupied pieces of land. Unfortunately, open land is in short supply close to the downtown core. However an unorthodox option does exist.

Nathan Phillips Sq. This might be hard to swallow, but if we could build a very large transit hub under NPS at the cost of maybe 12-15 20-30 bil and 5-6 7-8 years without NPS, then overcrowding at Union could be relieved. We'd essentially be creating a second Union Station/ Toronto's own Penn Station at the north end of the Financial Core. Of course our governments would never plan for the future, but if you did build an NPS station with as many platforms as Union that'd be ideal.


This proposal might not be necessary in the near-term if the new platform extensions? at Union allow for double heading but at some point we will need expanded commuter rail capacity.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Or maybe under Moss Park.

 

[MrGoose]

Or maybe under Moss Park.

I did consider Moss park and St James Park and Grange Park, its just that all 3 of those locations aren't as central as NPS is. Moss Park also doesn't have the transit connections that NPS does.

Another thought occured to me that, instead of converting old city hall into retail space, that it instead could be the facade for the new rail station.

 

[M II A II R II K]

What about making Union even bigger by having it take over that postal building next door, and have underground platforms there.

 

[MrGoose]

Isnt that building going to become a part of CIBC square.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Moss Park will soon have a subway connection to get to the core and one can walk to it from there. Also good that the DRL can intercept GO riders at East Harbour and Liberty Village so not everyone ends up at Union.

 

[ericmacm]

I have come up with a concept for an LRT network in Windsor, involving 4 lines, 2 East-West and 2 North-South, with Line 1 along the riverfront, Line 2 along the main downtown corridor, Line 3 along Tecumseh Road, and Line 4 along Walker Road.

The current city administration has no plans in regards to rapid transit because it costs too much money, and currently believe that the existing bus system is more than adequate, even though the system is completely awful in reality. It takes hours to bus across the city. You need a car down here to get anywhere within a reasonable amount of time.

There was a time in the past where BRT was being considered for implementation along 4 or 5 different corridors. This plan was written in the early 2000s and was scheduled for completion in 2015 or so, but that never happened, likely due to the city being decimated by the financial crisis.

Hopefully Windsor will one day join the ranks of other cities in implementing rapid transit.

 

[Johnny Au]

I have come up with a concept for an LRT network in Windsor, involving 4 lines, 2 East-West and 2 North-South, with Line 1 along the riverfront, Line 2 along the main downtown corridor, Line 3 along Tecumseh Road, and Line 4 along Walker Road.

The current city administration has no plans in regards to rapid transit because it costs too much money, and currently believe that the existing bus system is more than adequate, even though the system is completely awful in reality. It takes hours to bus across the city. You need a car down here to get anywhere within a reasonable amount of time.

There was a time in the past where BRT was being considered for implementation along 4 or 5 different corridors. This plan was written in the early 2000s and was scheduled for completion in 2015 or so, but that never happened, likely due to the city being decimated by the financial crisis.

Hopefully Windsor will one day join the ranks of other cities in implementing rapid transit.

View attachment 223099

At least the situation is better than Detroit across the river.

 

[ericmacm]

At least the situation is better than Detroit across the river.

Absolutely. I have never seen so many giant above-ground parkades in a single city before. Unfortunately, any attempt at regional mass transit in Detroit usually ends up being reduced to a small novelty restricted to the downtown core, with both the QLine and DPM systems as examples of this.

 

[sche]

I’ve been thinking about ways to extend the waterfront streetcars up Bay St to Bloor. Definitely not a priority project by any means, as it really doesn’t add more coverage, but it would be really cool to have, making intra-downtown trips easier, relieving the Yonge subway and Bloor-Yonge.

How hard would it be to get a streetcar station under the subway platforms at Union and continue the tracks up Bay St? Seems kind of complex to do with the probably high water table

Would closing some PATH tunnels and a part of the subway concourse to fit the streetcars above the current subway tracks work? that might be easier than going under the subway, but i’m not sure if splitting the subway concourse in half is a good idea.

Its probably easiest just to close the streetcar tunnel, route the streetcars on Bay St and close Bay St to cars (or at least make it like King St). To make transfers at Union easy, a station would be built under the rail corridor, and i would imagine stairs/escalators/elevators directly from the subway platform to the streetcar platform, like the VMC viva station. An additional line of fare gates would need to be installed for people entering the streetcar station from ground level. Bay St would probably need to be completely closed under the railway corridor. At bloor an underground interchange like Spadina Stn is probably a good idea.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I’ve been thinking about ways to extend the waterfront streetcars up Bay St to Bloor. Definitely not a priority project by any means, as it really doesn’t add more coverage, but it would be really cool to have, making intra-downtown trips easier, relieving the Yonge subway and Bloor-Yonge.

How hard would it be to get a streetcar station under the subway platforms at Union and continue the tracks up Bay St? Seems kind of complex to do with the probably high water table

Would closing some PATH tunnels and a part of the subway concourse to fit the streetcars above the current subway tracks work? that might be easier than going under the subway, but i’m not sure if splitting the subway concourse in half is a good idea.

Its probably easiest just to close the streetcar tunnel, route the streetcars on Bay St and close Bay St to cars (or at least make it like King St). To make transfers at Union easy, a station would be built under the rail corridor, and i would imagine stairs/escalators/elevators directly from the subway platform to the streetcar platform, like the VMC viva station. An additional line of fare gates would need to be installed for people entering the streetcar station from ground level. Bay St would probably need to be completely closed under the railway corridor. At bloor an underground interchange like Spadina Stn is probably a good idea.

It would be extremely difficult. Q: Outside of a few stations close to Union where the transfer becomes problematic (ex transfer to subway for a 1 or 2 stop trip to King or Queen) what would the benefit be of a streetcar up Bay? Getting to points North (Dundas, College) would be quicker on the subway anyway. And the Spadina Streetcar (coupled with the eventual OL/DRL, provides an alternative route into the core.

 

[Streety McCarface]

It would be extremely difficult. Q: Outside of a few stations close to Union where the transfer becomes problematic (ex transfer to subway for a 1 or 2 stop trip to King or Queen) what would the benefit be of a streetcar up Bay? Getting to points North (Dundas, College) would be quicker on the subway anyway. And the Spadina Streetcar (coupled with the eventual OL/DRL, provides an alternative route into the core.

The same benefits of the Spadina streetcar, local service along a busy street.

 

[sche]

It would be extremely difficult. Q: Outside of a few stations close to Union where the transfer becomes problematic (ex transfer to subway for a 1 or 2 stop trip to King or Queen) what would the benefit be of a streetcar up Bay? Getting to points North (Dundas, College) would be quicker on the subway anyway. And the Spadina Streetcar (coupled with the eventual OL/DRL, provides an alternative route into the core.

The Bay transit mall is probably an interesting project further into the future. There are definitely better options than a Bay streetcar for relieving Yonge, but it would definitely provide some relief with a good transfer at Bay Stn. Also, I’d imagine there’d be a lot of people especially once both QQE and WWLRT are built that want to travel further north than just Union. I don’t think a Bay streetcar in a proper transit mall would be much slower than the Yonge subway, and would probably be faster than transferring for people coming from QQ.
Also there really aren’t good north-south surface transit options for short trips in downtown east of Spadina (yes there are buses, but i think ridership could justify a streetcar on Bay especially with integration with the QQ lines)

 

[WislaHD]

I don't think you need to design Bay to relieve Yonge.

It just needs to be designed to add network redundancy. If Yonge Line is shut down for whatever reason, there should be an option for people to walk over to Bay and ride an LRT up to Bloor.

I believe that a frequent Mt. Pleasant --> Jarvis bus route should similarly be considered (plus that could also probably take ~1,000 people off of Yonge at rush hour, where frankly every little bit of relief helps).