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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

^ I could be wrong but isn't it the case where a GO train and UP train can't pass each other on the existing tunnel right now? So in effect it's a one track tunnel even though there are three tracks? cc @crs1026 @smallspy
UP and Go trains pass each other around E. North station or the Humber River Valley all the time. Whether or not they are choreographed to do that and specifically not within the tunnel itself I couldn’t say. But isn’t the speed limit in the tunnel somewhat limited to allow trains to pass each other within its walls?
 
^ I could be wrong but isn't it the case where a GO train and UP train can't pass each other on the existing tunnel right now? So in effect it's a one track tunnel even though there are three tracks? cc @crs1026 @smallspy

I believe there is a speed restriction, but there is no limitation to one train at a time. Back in 2015 when the three tracks were first constructed, GO ran tests where two trains with various instrumentation were sent through the tunnels at the same time. Apparently this, plus the speed restriction, addressed concerns that the pneumatic forces of two trains passing each other at speed could tip the trains just enough for them to touch. I do expect that when the new tunnel opens, the tracks will be shifted so that there are only two tracks within the existing underpass - that will likely remove the speed restriction.

- Paul
 
I believe there is a speed restriction, but there is no limitation to one train at a time. Back in 2015 when the three tracks were first constructed, GO ran tests where two trains with various instrumentation were sent through the tunnels at the same time. Apparently this, plus the speed restriction, addressed concerns that the pneumatic forces of two trains passing each other at speed could tip the trains just enough for them to touch. I do expect that when the new tunnel opens, the tracks will be shifted so that there are only two tracks within the existing underpass - that will likely remove the speed restriction.

- Paul

Indeed, there is a slow order of 60mph through the underpass due to how close the tracks are to each other (13 foot track centres versus 14.5 feet). The only restriction is to freight trains being required to be routed onto track 2 - there is no restriction on how many trains can be run simultaneously. The new tunnel is going to have the two northern-most mainline tracks run through it, and thus allow GO to lift the slow order on all tracks.

Dan
 
I don’t understand why the 401/409 tunnel construction would prevent weekend trains on the Kitchener line. UP runs just the same.

The issue isnt track availability, its the safety protocols about crews working around live tracks. and the disruption that even more trains would cause.
 
I was on this train, shortly after pulling out of Union, the train engineers came rushing through the train and one stopped in the small area between two cars and started wildly cranking some sort of lever - I couldn't really see - Any idea what that does and what happened?

I have heard grapevine reports about this incident. I will not share them, as the grapevine is frequently exaggerated or wrong and I am not about to make statements that I can’t defend.

What I can say with confidence is - There is only one big crankable device in the area you describe, and it’s the handbrake.

Why would the operators have to rush from car to car to apply brakes by hand? Safety first. Stop the train, tie it down, then investigate the problem - is the proper procedure. Getting handbrakes on quickly when something ain't right is a railway imperative these days.

- Paul
 
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The issue isnt track availability, its the safety protocols about crews working around live tracks. and the disruption that even more trains would cause.
I see. So my next question would be this: would it cause that much of an issue to go from 8 to 10 trains per hour through that stretch? Or would it make a difference that Go trains serving E. North would be using Track 1, closest to the tunnel work zone?
 
I see. So my next question would be this: would it cause that much of an issue to go from 8 to 10 trains per hour through that stretch? Or would it make a difference that Go trains serving E. North would be using Track 1, closest to the tunnel work zone?

The short answer is, no difference.

Work zones are referred to as “Rule 42 zones”. Basically, there is a marked point on either side of the work zone where each train must stop and contact a “Foreman” (no gender implied) by radio for permission to proceed. The Foreman is stationed at the work site (usually in a company vehicle) and, when called by an approaching train, verifies that all workers and equipment are clear of the work site and know not to move foul of the track. When the Foreman is satisfied that it’s safe to proceed, they give the train verbal permission by radio. They may add special instructions, such as a maximum speed through the work limits, where to sound bell and/or whistle, etc. The location of these zones are conveyed to the crews at the start of their shift in writing, and are marked physically in the field by “flags” (temporary signage, actually) and it’s a big deal if the crew overlook the written instructions or fail to spot the flags.

To your question, one foreman can clear more than 10 trains an hour in each direction - as they frequently do already between say Mimico and Bathurst St. The limiting factor is really how much radio traffic can be handled.... it certainly gets difficult in peak hours as all foremen share the same radio channel. Only one person can speak at a time. Of course, this assumes that the track is kept clear - if work requires that equipment must block the track, the train has to wait until the equipment can vacate and permission to proceed can be given.

The issue for nights and weekends is simply that this is when much of the maintenance happens, so while there may be fewer trains there is also less track available.

- Paul
 
Indeed, there is a slow order of 60mph through the underpass due to how close the tracks are to each other (13 foot track centres versus 14.5 feet). The only restriction is to freight trains being required to be routed onto track 2 - there is no restriction on how many trains can be run simultaneously. The new tunnel is going to have the two northern-most mainline tracks run through it, and thus allow GO to lift the slow order on all tracks.

Dan
Can confirm, I was on an Express train 6:00pm and we slowed down from 125 km/hr ish to just under 90 km/hr just for the tunnel.

Another slow order I believe is at the future Mount Dennis Go. Train slowed down to about 70km/hr. There is a bit of a curve there.

At the moment every midday train I've been on has been diverted to track 2 and 3 at Weston Go for now instead of the normal track 1.
 
Another slow order I believe is at the future Mount Dennis Go. Train slowed down to about 70km/hr. There is a bit of a curve there.

That one is a temporary one to allow room for the construction. It should continue until just before The Crosstown opens.

At the moment every midday train I've been on has been diverted to track 2 and 3 at Weston Go for now instead of the normal track 1.

This is also to allow the workers more room to do their thing at Weston. There seems to only be one shift working at that site, in the middle of the days.

Dan
 
Can confirm, I was on an Express train 6:00pm and we slowed down from 125 km/hr ish to just under 90 km/hr just for the tunnel.

Another slow order I believe is at the future Mount Dennis Go. Train slowed down to about 70km/hr. There is a bit of a curve there.

At the moment every midday train I've been on has been diverted to track 2 and 3 at Weston Go for now instead of the normal track 1.
You were hitting 75 MPH? Whenever I'm on the weston sub we never exceed 60 MPH.
 
The short answer is, no difference.

Work zones are referred to as “Rule 42 zones”. Basically, there is a marked point on either side of the work zone where each train must stop and contact a “Foreman” (no gender implied) by radio for permission to proceed. The Foreman is stationed at the work site (usually in a company vehicle) and, when called by an approaching train, verifies that all workers and equipment are clear of the work site and know not to move foul of the track. When the Foreman is satisfied that it’s safe to proceed, they give the train verbal permission by radio. They may add special instructions, such as a maximum speed through the work limits, where to sound bell and/or whistle, etc. The location of these zones are conveyed to the crews at the start of their shift in writing, and are marked physically in the field by “flags” (temporary signage, actually) and it’s a big deal if the crew overlook the written instructions or fail to spot the flags.

To your question, one foreman can clear more than 10 trains an hour in each direction - as they frequently do already between say Mimico and Bathurst St. The limiting factor is really how much radio traffic can be handled.... it certainly gets difficult in peak hours as all foremen share the same radio channel. Only one person can speak at a time. Of course, this assumes that the track is kept clear - if work requires that equipment must block the track, the train has to wait until the equipment can vacate and permission to proceed can be given.

The issue for nights and weekends is simply that this is when much of the maintenance happens, so while there may be fewer trains there is also less track available.

- Paul
Thank you for that explanation.
 
You were hitting 75 MPH? Whenever I'm on the weston sub we never exceed 60 MPH.
The 4:00 express to union does that between Malton and Etobicoke North, slows down for the 401 tunnel, speeds up again after. Slows down again for Mount Dennis, and then speeds up until Queen Street West.

The fastest I've been on the Weston Sub was 128 km/hr back when the slow order at mount Dennis wasn't there.

Fastest I've been for an all stops train was 138 km/hr on lakeshore east, between Rouge Hill and Eglinton Go. For an Express train the Oshawa Go to Union Go super Express we went about 146 km/hr max.
 
The 4:00 express to union does that between Malton and Etobicoke North, slows down for the 401 tunnel, speeds up again after. Slows down again for Mount Dennis, and then speeds up until Queen Street West.

The fastest I've been on the Weston Sub was 128 km/hr back when the slow order at mount Dennis wasn't there.

Fastest I've been for an all stops train was 138 km/hr on lakeshore east, between Rouge Hill and Eglinton Go. For an Express train the Oshawa Go to Union Go super Express we went about 146 km/hr max.
I've been on many Lakeshore West trains that peaked at approximately ~145kph.

They were typically late-departures of the express-to-Clarkson/Oakville trains, that needed to go track speed limit to catch up to its schedule.

The fastest train I've been on was the famous Pan Am train that made it to Hamilton in 47 minutes. -- one of the fastest known revenue-passenger transit of a Bombardier BiLevel from Toronto-Hamilton. It whooshed past Burlington 30 minutes after departing Union. It practically went rail speed almost the entire way.

It departed Union almost half an hour late. They had to throw in all the Presto logs simultaneously into the locomotive to hit 88mph (literally) to get Back To The Future.

From reaperexpress in 2015:
208886
 
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Word on the street is that the single track portion of the CN Grimsby Subdivision (CN Nelles in Grimsby to CN Jordan in Jordan) is to be double tracked this spring.

The bridge across Jordan Harbour has received structural reinforcements to clear the slow order.

This work should hopefully eliminate freight delays that affect Niagara GO trains.

Additionally, new switches are being installed in Niagara Falls and the second track from CN Clifton to the Niagara Falls station is being repaired.
 
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