Montréal Transit Developments

[p_xavier]

I think the REM shows that the most important thing in any transit building is, MONEY.

Having the investment REM has is what expedited its creation.

Funds for various ontario projects are bookmarked but then they trickle out, and things get delayed deferred.

Yes, that's exactly it. The cost per user by km is actually lower for the REM (which includes, infrastructure, trains, financing for the CDPQi, operation costs) than what it costs to run an EXO commuter train (operation costs only). That's a major reason why there will never be an EXO RER, it's just cheaper to remove everything and build a light metro instead.

 

[p_xavier]

It would double the length but probably add 10% to the ridership. I was near Chambly on Saturday, mostly because I missed my exit at Dix-Trente and needed to drive through 11 kilometers of farmland/wilderness before I could exit and u-turn, and I can't imagine any rationale other than flagrant vote-buying to extend a high-frequency metro 22 kilometers through the green belt to a city of 29k.

Adding a branch to Carrefour Laval is less egregious, but the REM already is stretching the limits to how much branching you can have converging on a single section. They would be better off REM-ifying (or electrifying/double-tracking) the St. Jerome line and Mascouche lines.

It always dépends on the planned density and service. I would not be surprised to see 40m stations and single tracking for the Brossard to Chambly line. That would be a really low cost per km to build too.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

57years is indeed insane! But not quickly! Other than that 57-year old plan (and there have been several versions of it over the years), the key element that's been added is the LRT over the new Champlain bridge, to the south shore. Planning for that was was going big-time by 2007 - but I think the AMT studies on it were going on for years prior. I seem to it being listed as one of the "Grands Projets" on the AMT website for years and years (digging through the Internet Archives - yes it was mentioned back as early in June 2002 as "l’axe de l’autoroute 10 entre Brossard et la Place Bonaventure à Montréal". I hardly suspect it was a brand-new idea even then!

Construction on the LRT section over the St. Lawrence started in 2015. The whole thing being finalized and integrated into a single line was relatively quick - but if you ignore the half-century of planning that preceded it, you are really seeing much greener-grass next door.

Meanwhile, look at the status of the three Montreal projects in page one of this thread, nearly ten years ago that some in this Forum were using of proof of how far ahead Montreal was of Toronto. All were to be completed by about now. Status? Blue line 5-km extension - might start construction in 2020 and be complete in 2026. Yellow line 5-km extension - dormant. Orange line 10-km extension - the bit to Bois-Franc is dormant, and the rest seems forgotten. Meanwhile the Spadina subway extension is complete, the UP Express has opened, 19-km Line 5 Eglinton - which wasn't even mentioned on page 1 - should be open in 2021, and the 11-km Line 6 should open in 2023, of our Premier doesn't manage to mess it up.

Don't we all enjoy a lovely bowl of sour grapes. Credit where credit is due.

I agree, nfitz stop making excuses for Toronto. every line you mentioned for Toronto was supposed to be done 5 years ago. Metrolinx and the City need to get focused here. Regardless of who is in government, the GTHA has a very poor record since the 1970s and especially since the early 2000s on delivering transit. There is no way Montreal and Vancouver are moving faster then us.

 

[nfitz]

Yes, but where the REM is there is much more density getting built, even more than current underserved places.

Where's that happening? (genuinely curious, don't get there as much these days). Most of the inital stations north of Central have been there for decades. And presumably not much densification in the Autoroute 10 median! I'm sure densification will come though!

The East Island line is basically the former proposal of line 8 for the Montréal Metro. It was initially proposed in the 1980s as LRT but the CAQ government is looking into making it a REM line and connecting it to the future Anjou metro station through Radisson.

Ah, I remember that one. Seemed like a good idea a the time. Hmm, that's Line 7 on your map though (Pie-IX Metro). Line 6 became the Repentigny commuter train - which I thought would have been a good REM candidate. How would they connect from Radisson to Anjou, and to the existing REM (I'd think converting the Repentigny line to REM would be a pre-requisite.

I agree, nfitz stop making excuses for Toronto.

I don't recall making any excuses - progress in Toronto has been dreadful. I'm just pointing out that many here seem unaware of the long, long, history on these projects in Montreal. Many here seem aware of the nearly 60-year history of Line 3, or the two decades of talk about the LRT from downtown down the Autoroute 10 median.

There is no way Montreal and Vancouver are moving faster then us.

I didn't say Montreal is. Don't think I mentioned Vancouver ...

 

[p_xavier]

Where's that happening? (genuinely curious, don't get there as much these days). Most of the inital stations north of Central have been there for decades. And presumably not much densification in the Autoroute 10 median! I'm sure densification will come though!

Ah, I remember that one. Seemed like a good idea a the time. Hmm, that's Line 7 on your map though (Pie-IX Metro). Line 6 became the Repentigny commuter train - which I thought would have been a good REM candidate. How would they connect from Radisson to Anjou, and to the existing REM (I'd think converting the Repentigny line to REM would be a pre-requisite.
.

Quartier Solar Du Quartier station at plus TOD planned for Kirkland and Pointe-Claire stations.

Sorry, the map was a PNG with a transparency layer so when you click on it you can't see all lines. So what is planned is line 8 extended to the Anjou station. That might also branch to downtown but in a probable second phase. Again, the CDPQi will look into it. You can have a separate non-connected REM line if there's a garage maintenance center. Plenty of space for that in the East Island. For the Mascouche line, the Liberal party had proposed to have a REM line to replace that line but they were not elected so. Plus I doubt the CN would let anyone else in their way.

Here's a a jpg version :

 

[nfitz]

Quartier Solar Du Quartier station at plus TOD planned for Kirkland and Pointe-Claire stations.

Ah, Kirkland and Pointe-Claire don't surprise me - though that's more of a phase 2 isn't it along with the Dorval branch. Are they starting construction on those six stations now?

Gosh, Du Quartier, is that densification, or just sprawl! Looks like agricultural fields around there mostly ... though the co-ordinates in English Wikipedia for that station seem to put it a few feet away from the next station (Rive-Sud) - presumably one of those stations is elsewhere.

 

[begratto]

Yes they have started construction on all branches of the REM, including Kirkland and Pointe-Claire.

 

[nfitz]

Yes they have started construction on all branches of the REM, including Kirkland and Pointe-Claire.

Unfortunate, I was hoping they'd think through the Dorval branch more. It seems crazy stopping it at the airport, but missing the main regional transportation hub a short distance away at Dorval circle.

 

[p_xavier]

Unfortunate, I was hoping they'd think through the Dorval branch more. It seems crazy stopping it at the airport, but missing the main regional transportation hub a short distance away at Dorval circle.

Talking about that...

https://montrealgazette.com/news/lo...pushing-for-rem-extension-to-via-rail-station

 

[p_xavier]

The Québec government has confirmed that it has asked the CDPQi for REM extensions, and the CPDQi is currently studying a link to Dorval Station from the Airport.

Megafolie on mtlurb.com has posted some great pics of the ongoing construction.

 

[ssiguy2]

REM's very fast construction really put's RER to shame and exemplifies Metrolinx's bureaucracy, lack of iniitiative, and overall incompetence. Seriously, RER was first suggest nearly a decade ago and they have yet to even make the truly monumental decision of platform heights to say nothing of the type of trains they will run or fare integration.

That said, Metrolinx has proven itself to be a parking garage builder extraordinaire

 

[nfitz]

REM's very fast construction really put's RER to shame and exemplifies Metrolinx's bureaucracy, lack of iniitiative, and overall incompetence. Seriously, RER was first suggest nearly a decade ago and they have yet to even make the truly monumental decision of platform heights to say nothing of the type of trains they will run or fare integration.

Much of the central portion of the REM line was first suggested well over a half-century ago - and is the reason that Line 3 was missing from the Montreal Metro numbering. Perhaps the most expensive piece of infrastructure north of Central are the new deep platforms to connect Édouard-Montpetit metro station - which were part of the plans in the 1970s when they started construction, but then deferred to save money.

Planning of the LRT link from Central station to the south-shore began almost 20 years ago, and construction finally began in 2015.

There's been some tremendous progress finally in both projects - and linking them together certainly has been done well recently. But let's not pretend that these are new plans!

 

[begratto]

Much of the central portion of the REM line was first suggested well over a half-century ago - and is the reason that Line 3 was missing from the Montreal Metro numbering. Perhaps the most expensive piece of infrastructure north of Central are the new deep platforms to connect Édouard-Montpetit metro station - which were part of the plans in the 1970s when they started construction, but then deferred to save money.

Until the CDPQ came along with the REM project, line 3 was never a serious project, though. Just a "vision". Town of Mount-Royal and St-Laurent never wanted to contribute financially to the project (at a time when they were paid by the cities and not the provincial government), so the discussions stopped there.

Planning of the LRT link from Central station to the south-shore began almost 20 years ago, (...)

They did some studies, but it was a different project, that would have used the "estacade" (the ice-breaker located upstream from Champlain bridge). Again, it was only a "vision". Good thing they did not go ahead with it, as the REM is a much better project.

(...) and construction finally began in 2015.

Construction began in April 2018. The first time the project was announced publicly was in April 2016.

There's been some tremendous progress finally in both projects - and linking them together certainly has been done well recently. But let's not pretend that these are new plans!

Well can any transit project really be considered a "new plan"? Montreal's metro was first suggested in the 1920's and was only opened in 1967. Took almost half a century! Same thing with a future high speed train from Montreal to Toronto. They've been talking about it since the 1980's (at least)! It's not a new plan. But will it still matter if the feds announce that they will build it?

 

[nfitz]

Until the CDPQ came along with the REM project, line 3 was never a serious project, though. Just a "vision".

Still, the context of my comment was in comparison to the "RER was first suggest nearly a decade ago and they have yet to ...". There have been many serious studies for what to do with the Line 3 alignment, though nothing was decided until they gifted the Caisse with all that free publicly-owned infrastructure.

Town of Mount-Royal and St-Laurent never wanted to contribute financially to the project (at a time when they were paid by the cities and not the provincial government), so the discussions stopped there.

That's a long ways back. Metro expansion was transferred to the province decades ago. I don't recall any requests for TMR or St. Laurent to contribute to the 1990s rebuild of that line.

They did some studies, but it was a different project, that would have used the "estacade" (the ice-breaker located upstream from Champlain bridge). Again, it was only a "vision". Good thing they did not go ahead with it, as the REM is a much better project.

Some of the earlier studies did propose that - I think another early study briefly looked at a Yellow line loop along/near Sherbrooke, and turning back south again to create a second river crossing, with the LRT terminating on the south shore. However, I believe that those studies all predate the planning for the new Champlain bridge, which got serious about 12 years ago! I can quickly see reports back to 2007 talking about putting rail-based transit on the new structure. It's good to see this being done - but I don't think we should be pretending that these plans haven't been around for a long time. Much of the LRT alignment south of the river, seems to be relatively unchanged since the 2002 proposals

And not to nitpick, but construction began in 2018.

The bridge carrying the LRT to the south shore started construction in 2015 - and the LRT has been an integral part of the design for many years before that. The much simpler rehab of the Deux-Montagnes line started more recently ... along with surface sections of the LRT ... which is not surprising. The Eglinton LRT in Toronto started construction around 2010, and it's only in 2018 they started working on the surface section between Science Centre and Kennedy stations.

It's not a new plan. But does it really matter?

The context was a comment was in complaining that RER was first suggested almost a decade ago. No it doesn't matter - but I don't think we should be pretending that this Montreal transit line is less than a decade in the planning.

There always seems to be a belief by some that everywhere else other than Toronto does better with no big delays to projects, etc. And yet they haven't opened a Metro station on the Island of Montreal in over 30 years. How many times have they announced a Blue Line extension to Pie-IX or further? They even showed it on the map on Metro trains back in the mid-1980s - so that they put white dots over the black holes, once the station opened - and not have to replace the map!

 

[p_xavier]

REM's very fast construction really put's RER to shame and exemplifies Metrolinx's bureaucracy, lack of iniitiative, and overall incompetence. Seriously, RER was first suggest nearly a decade ago and they have yet to even make the truly monumental decision of platform heights to say nothing of the type of trains they will run or fare integration.

That said, Metrolinx has proven itself to be a parking garage builder extraordinaire

The only reason why Montréal is getting new rapid transit with the REM is becaused of the CDPQ. The ARTM and the MTQ are worse than Metrolinx in getting actual things done.

I'm sure that with the uploading of the subway and privatizing extensions, the TTC will see much more extensions done than under its own, or the city's leadership.