Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[sixrings]

Stop trying to make the Sheppard subway make sense. We have a DRL to worry about.

 

[BurlOak]

Stop trying to make the Sheppard subway make sense. We have a DRL to worry about.

The DRL is dead. Most of Metrolinx proposed solutions to ease Y-B involve increasing GO and not building a whole new subway line. It could be the window of opportunity for the DRL is gone again.

 

[sixrings]

The DRL is dead. Most of Metrolinx proposed solutions to ease Y-B involve increasing GO and not building a whole new subway line. It could be the window of opportunity for the DRL is gone again.

Maybe but the Window of opportunity for Sheppard subway is gone as well. Just make the LRTs and we will go from there. If the DRL is fantasy then the Sheppard extension should be listed as the extended directors cut fantasy edition.

 

[nfitz]

The DRL is dead. Most of Metrolinx proposed solutions to ease Y-B involve increasing GO and not building a whole new subway line.

I'm not sure what these Metrolinx-proposed solutions you speak of are. There's various projects under discussion, but I don't think Metrolinx has opined that any of them would do away with the need for a subway to relieve Yonge-Bloor. And at the same time, last year they upped the priority of the DRL in the Big Move, and put it into the smaller pool for funding of the next wave. Meanwhile the provincial government singled out the DRL in last week's budget.

As such, I think you are wrong.

 

[aquateam]

The DRL is dead. Most of Metrolinx proposed solutions to ease Y-B involve increasing GO and not building a whole new subway line. It could be the window of opportunity for the DRL is gone again.

Really? The DRL is close to at its peak level of interest. Metrolinx and the TTC are both doing separate studies into it, Andy Byford and Bruce McQuaig both said it was a priority, and every mayoral candidate has called it a priority (excepting Ford, and Tory's giant flip flop after accusing Chow of somehow not supporting it enough.) The liberals also just got elected to a majority promising a $15 billion pot of cash for GTA transit projects. I think the stars are finally aligning for a DRL, GO-expansion aside.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The DRL is dead. Most of Metrolinx proposed solutions to ease Y-B involve increasing GO and not building a whole new subway line. It could be the window of opportunity for the DRL is gone again.

Maybe but the Window of opportunity for Sheppard subway is gone as well. Just make the LRTs and we will go from there. If the DRL is fantasy then the Sheppard extension should be listed as the extended directors cut fantasy edition.

I'm not sure what these Metrolinx-proposed solutions you speak of are. There's various projects under discussion, but I don't think Metrolinx has opined that any of them would do away with the need for a subway to relieve Yonge-Bloor. And at the same time, last year they upped the priority of the DRL in the Big Move, and put it into the smaller pool for funding of the next wave. Meanwhile the provincial government singled out the DRL in last week's budget.

As such, I think you are wrong.

If GO Electrification is going to cost 12 billion, where will the 5 or 6 billion for the DRL phase 1 come from? As for Sheppard East: we'll see after the election. If Ford or Tory win we will see another subway debate next year. If Chow wins then the Sheppard East LRT will begin soon and so will the SRT extension. One might be tempted to lean the way of generationw and say that the DRL will be delayed forever but that is a matter of opinion.

 

[BurlOak]

I'm not sure what these Metrolinx-proposed solutions you speak of are. There's various projects under discussion, but I don't think Metrolinx has opined that any of them would do away with the need for a subway to relieve Yonge-Bloor. And at the same time, last year they upped the priority of the DRL in the Big Move, and put it into the smaller pool for funding of the next wave. Meanwhile the provincial government singled out the DRL in last week's budget.

As such, I think you are wrong.

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...26_BoardMtg_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study_EN.pdf

ways to solve Yonge.

1. Integrate GO and TTC
2. New GO Operations and Stations
3. Relief Line
4. GO transit
5. Parallel transit
6. Buses

It is pretty telling that they have come up with so many options to solve the Yonge problem. It seems pretty obvious that the GO route (and maybe stop-gap buses) will be done well before thoughts turn to the DRL.

 

[nfitz]

If GO Electrification is going to cost 12 billion, where will the 5 or 6 billion for the DRL phase 1 come from?

Your cart is so far off ahead of the horse, it just fell off the edge of the earth! You could just as easily say if the DRL Phase 1 is going to cost $4 billion, where will the $8 billion for GO Electrification come from.

As we've previously discussed, the studies to date provide no indication that electrifying GO would provide much relief of Bloor-Yonge station.

Let's see what the various studies show before we write the obituary of a project that is currently ramping up.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Your cart is so far off ahead of the horse, it just fell off the edge of the earth! You could just as easily say if the DRL Phase 1 is going to cost $4 billion, where will the $8 billion for GO Electrification come from.

As we've previously discussed, the studies to date provide no indication that electrifying GO would provide much relief of Bloor-Yonge station.

Let's see what the various studies show before we write the obituary of a project that is currently ramping up.

Really? It came out of the Metrolinx Chairs mouth that electrification might cost that. Now, I personally believe it will cost half that and lean to your side, but that does not mean they are wrong. I will agree with you, let's wait and see.

 

[rbt]

If GO Electrification is going to cost 12 billion...

From a $29B budget. Some of that $12B will be from the non-GTA portion of the funds; possibly as much as $3B of it. Yards, maintenance facilities, train orders, etc. will be split. They may try to justify some Toronto spending, like Pearson Airport station, as being 50% non-GTA due to the London and Kitchener customers the main users.

I'm not sure we'll know how much money might remain available for GTA projects for a few more years.

 

[rbt]

Really? It came out of the Metrolinx Chairs mouth that electrification might cost that. Now, I personally believe it will cost half that and lean to your side, but that does not mean they are wrong. I will agree with you, let's wait and see.

Electrification might be $2B but 15 minute bi-directional off-peak frequencies are much more difficult.

A rolling-stock order will be in the $1B range for 2025 peak-capacity. Milton line alone will be at least $2B and possibly $3B if expropriations being politically difficult and more adventurous methods are necessary (tunnel through Mississauga?).

They've also said there is another $1B in spending necessary on the Kitchener line.

 

[nfitz]

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...26_BoardMtg_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study_EN.pdf

ways to solve Yonge.

1. Integrate GO and TTC
2. New GO Operations and Stations
3. Relief Line
4. GO transit
5. Parallel transit
6. Buses

It is pretty telling that they have come up with so many options to solve the Yonge problem. It seems pretty obvious that the GO route (and maybe stop-gap buses) will be done well before thoughts turn to the DRL.

Those aren't proposed solutions. Those are potential solutions. They won't propose a solution until they quantify the effects of the various options. Which hasn't been done yet. Some of those "potential" solutions will be tossed in the next stage (called "Evaulation"), to come up with a shorter list. Which will then be further evaluated to come up with a final list of proposed solutions.

It's entirely possible that the final list will simply consist of DRL ... or DRL and something else. Though I suppose if they do ALL of them except the DRL they might start to have some impact. Like some significant dedicated BRT or LRT (or GO Shuttle) along the Don Valley, connecting in Castle Frank and downtown. At the same time also build Kennedy to Union express, and frequent express service on the Richmond Hill line, and spend $1 billion on adding 2 more platforms at Bloor-Yonge.

But again the cart is before the horse. Part of the reason we got here, is they started to realise the $1 billion to be spent on Bloor-Yonge wouldn't get them all the way, and that the money would be better spent on a DRL.

 

[nfitz]

Really? It came out of the Metrolinx Chairs mouth that electrification might cost that.

A) Might. Read the definition of Might. B) No indication that it trumps DRl. C) Province has since touted DRL.

Not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that the DRL isn't dead.

Now, I personally believe it will cost half that and lean to your side, but that does not mean they are wrong. I will agree with you, let's wait and see.

If they are not wrong, the DRL is dead. Do you think the DRL is dead? If you don't think the DRL is dead they are wrong.

 

[WislaHD]

Politically speaking, York region happens to hold many swing ridings. Yonge North is a politically popular idea in York region. A DRL line needs to be built before the Yonge North extension to York region.

Ergo, I would be very surprised if the DRL is dead.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

From a $29B budget. Some of that $12B will be from the non-GTA portion of the funds; possibly as much as $3B of it. Yards, maintenance facilities, train orders, etc. will be split. They may try to justify some Toronto spending, like Pearson Airport station, as being 50% non-GTA due to the London and Kitchener customers the main users.

I'm not sure we'll know how much money might remain available for GTA projects for a few more years.

Electrification might be $2B but 15 minute bi-directional off-peak frequencies are much more difficult.

A rolling-stock order will be in the $1B range for 2025 peak-capacity. Milton line alone will be at least $2B and possibly $3B if expropriations being politically difficult and more adventurous methods are necessary (tunnel through Mississauga?).

They've also said there is another $1B in spending necessary on the Kitchener line.

I don't disagree with that. It should cost no more then 6 billion imo. Cut back to half hour service on all lines. And then electrification I include Milton in this (I can't believe they are saying 2 billion for that, laying track is not expensive. )

A) Might. Read the definition of Might. B) No indication that it trumps DRl. C) Province has since touted DRL.

Not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that the DRL isn't dead.

Yes they have, the province has been saying everything about the DRL. Seems to me recently its about electrification

If they are not wrong, the DRL is dead. Do you think the DRL is dead? If you don't think the DRL is dead they are wrong.

No. I do think they are pushing more GO service because it's more politically expedient.