King Street East

[kkgg7]

For some reason, everyone is talking about King West and how what a successful transformation it has undergone. However, little attention has been placed on King East. I don't know how King East looked like 10 or 20 years ago, but at present, I would say it is one of my favourite areas in downtown Toronto. It can serve to testify that a city including its downtown doesn't need super tall glass boxes to look chic and modern.

King East is probably one of the most successful cases of "gentrification". All the old low rise brick buildings are kept, yet very well maintained or restored. From Yonge to Sherbourne st and beyond, the area looks extremely pleasing to the eyes yet not pretentiously or dauntingly "upscale". It strikes me as a charming mixed used community with new and old condos, cafes and restaurants, a big park (currently "occupied" by people wanting more socialism) and furniture stores, where walking on the street makes you feel life is beautiful.

I wish more streets are like that. Sherbourne St is often be perceived as sketchy, yet at King and Sherbourne, it is quite a different story. I walked along Sherbourne towards to north, and unfortunately things kept going down. Adelaide is still nice, but on Richmond, you begin to see some rundown structures, which have good bones, just look unpleasant due to neglect I suppose. It is when it hits Queen East you start to want to stop and turn around. And in between you see quite several large sized surface lot sitting there waiting to be developed. Moss Park and surrounding areas, the Queen/Sherbourne intersection exude poverty and despair. And I am surprised by the two-worlds difference when it is a sheer 400 meters apart. Further north, Dundas East, I don't even need to comment how horrible it is. I guess it is until after Gerrard when things start to improve a bit, but not quite.

I believe King East didn't look like this 10 years ago, and it is encouraging to see that with the right planning, our streets can look both urban and classy without hastily replacing old buildings with 200 meter tall glass towers or attaching them with glass towers from behind everywhere.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Now here's a kkgg7 post I can get behind.

KING EAST ROCKS!!!

I even liked it back in the 90's, when i used to live at The Derby (King & Parliament)

 

[CityPainter]

I agree, King East from Yonge to around Berkeley is one of the nicest walking stretches in Toronto. Lots of high points: the King Edward, the St. James Cathedral, the nice historic strip across from the church including the Sculpture Garden, historic buildings on three corners at King and Jarvis, the long strip of small furniture shops further east, small restaurants and cafes like the Petit Dejeuner and Patrician Grill, not to mention Betty's, the only real dive bar in the area. George Brown adds lots of street life during the week and keeps things from getting too pricey.

It's a good mix of liveliness, upscale shopping, new and old, etc. The newish East Lofts and refurbishing of the Toronto Sun building is helping to improve this even more and push progress east: perhaps Brad Lamb's King East condo at Parliament will continue this trend. The walk further east beyond Parliament is also pleasant, though much more low-key: it feels like an area still in development.

 

[kkgg7]

I wonder what prevent things from going toward the same direction for Queen East and Dundas East. That area looks so sad I almost want to cry.

I notice there is some development around Shutter/Jarvis, but mostly new condos replacing large lots. When I walk on Queen East, I kept thinking what can be done to improve both the looks and the liveliness of this area. Think about it: it is less than tens minutes away from the Eaton Center and old City Hall. There are many equally nice red brick buildings like those on King East, just not in equally fine condition. King East looks like someone is taking of it constantly, while Queen East appears the city just leave it to live or die.

Many buildings look old and lacking maintenance, and are empty. The south side looks a lot better, yet at the very corner of Queen/Church, there is a sad looking McDonald's, followed by some tacky looking storefront I doubt many ever go to. Don't get me wrong, those buildings themselves are beautiful, just those signs which say "Sony" or "Henry's" that make them instantly a lot cheaper.

It is the north side of Queen East that makes the street so sad. Queen/Church starts with a pizza store painted in bright yellow, in a desperate condition,
http://g.co/maps/zn4vn

I know I had a lot of disagreement with what should be kept or what is "heritage" with quite some members, however, if someone says this is has some sort of value and should "stay as it is", I am gonna would say "Shame on you".


followed by three or four tacky stores, pawnbrokers/jewellery exchanges The large parking lot on the north side near Mutual makes it even more empty and deserted-looking.

http://g.co/maps/bv2qz
http://g.co/maps/cbcmn

Then
Queen/Jarvis http://g.co/maps/pmpjg
Queen/Sherrbourne http://g.co/maps/tr6n9

it seems contrary to King East, Queen East has no identity. It just cries poor and deserted. I know the existence of shelters poses a challenge, however, for the city, it is no reason just to leave this great street in such bad condition and not to do anything to improve it.

 

[Marcanadian]

I don't think Queen East has a single 'identity', but it has multiple characters. It's unpredictable, gritty and chaotic, which some people enjoy, but the majority I believe find dirty. The storefronts definitely need fixing up, and that massive parking lot really needs to go. If the proposal for those condominium developments go through, that should be a catalyst for improvement the area needs.

 

[adma]

What Queen and Dundas have that King doesn't, is the immediate proximity of assisted housing and shelters. That'll tell you everything.

 

[taal]

Queen really isn't that bad ... it's bad right around the DVP granted ... and bad is such a subjective term. Once you cross the DVP all the way to the beaches many would claim it is perfect as is.

So really we're talking about the stretch from say Jarvis to the DVP (and a bit past).


Regarding King E, maybe it's just me but I've always viewed as one of the most complete streets in Toronto, up to a little before the Disterily district at least, in the sense that there's nothing left to development for the most part. The built form in the area is what many argue for i.e. what the rest of the city should be like.

I really love some of the condos in the area, I think they did a really good job of adding retail / and fitting in. So for many who claim such a feet cannot be accomplished you should take a walk along King, particularly around Shereborne.


Now it is quiet overall compared to many other streets downtown, it's full of retail, but very one dimensional i.e. housing supply related stores. Though there are some nice resturants as well.

My personal dream is for the Disterily district to better integrate with the area. There's a little stretch around King (north of the Disterly and west) where there are still many plots of lands to develop.

 

[freshcutgrass]

My personal dream is for the Disterily district to better integrate with the area. There's a little stretch around King (north of the Disterly and west) where there are still many plots of lands to develop.

You're right....but the city has to stop allowing big box stores and car dealerships from filling these spaces. Where are their heads at anyway?

 

[kkgg7]

Queen really isn't that bad ... it's bad right around the DVP granted ... and bad is such a subjective term. Once you cross the DVP all the way to the beaches many would claim it is perfect as is.


Regarding King E, maybe it's just me but I've always viewed as one of the most complete streets in Toronto, up to a little before the Disterily district at least, in the sense that there's nothing left to development for the most part. The built form in the area is what many argue for i.e. what the rest of the city should be like.

I really love some of the condos in the area, I think they did a really good job of adding retail / and fitting in. So for many who claim such a feet cannot be accomplished you should take a walk along King, particularly around Shereborne.


Now it is quiet overall compared to many other streets downtown, it's full of retail, but very one dimensional i.e. housing supply related stores. Though there are some nice resturants as well.
.

Totally I agree with you that King is a "complete" street. Its entire central part is nice and fully developed, with hardly any gritty neglected part. I would say beside Bloor, College/Carlton is another one. In the center we have University of Toronto and College Park, to the east, Cabbage town, to the west, Little Italy. College/Spadina is a bit stetchy though.

Dundas is probably the worst downtown east-west street. It is messy and rundown most of its part. The only exception being between Yonge and Bay, and University and Beverly. Even the stretch between Bay and University is such a mess and looks outrightly cheap and tacky. I always consider Dundas as the very central part of downtown Toronto, and wonder what city planning are thinking. Dundas/Parliament is being developed very quicky, with shocking transformation. However, for some reason, I tend to be less optimistic about its eventual results. Although Toronto is an incredibly safe city, I still feel very uneasy walking anywhere near that part (including Queen-Shutter/Sherbourne). Those idle homeless standing on the street corner doing nothing is scary enough. Some sort of tumour for the city.

I am totally with the argument that King St is what the entire central city should look like. Almost too good to ever be true.

 

[nfitz]

You're right....but the city has to stop allowing big box stores and car dealerships from filling these spaces. Where are their heads at anyway?

The big box stores and car dealerships are slowly vanishing being replaced by Condos and offices. In some cases, there are now condos and offices on top of the big box stores and car dealerships.

What's the city to do? Let the marketplace control things, which has worked out fine. Or do some costly and painful social engineering?

 

[neubilder]

The big box stores and car dealerships are slowly vanishing being replaced by Condos and offices. In some cases, there are now condos and offices on top of the big box stores and car dealerships.

What's the city to do? Let the marketplace control things, which has worked out fine. Or do some costly and painful social engineering?

....which has worked out fine?

Wrong! If the market had been left to it's own devices Home Depot and other big-box would be the dominant use on the Toronto waterfront right now.
Actually. In fact it took concerted planning efforts to prevent it. There would also be no redevelopment of the Donlands, and the Distillery District would have long since been demolished.

Urban design and planning is essential and always has been, throughout the history of city building. The best (and most beloved) urban environs were carefully planned and not the result of the laissez-faire, where people do whatever they want based purely on economic motivation and opportunity.

It's time for Canadians to lose the frontier shoot-em-up Rob Fraud mentality.

 

[nfitz]

....which has worked out fine?

Wrong! If the market had been left to it's own devices Home Depot and other big-box would be the dominant use on the Toronto waterfront right now.
Actually. In fact it took concerted planning efforts to prevent it. There would also be no redevelopment of the Donlands, and the Distillery District would have long since been demolished.

I was referring to ongoing development in long established areas. Not the Waterfront, which is pretty much from scratch. There's no demand for anyone building that kind of low-rise big box on King East. I'm surprised you'd suggest otherwise!

It's time for Canadians to lose the frontier shoot-em-up Rob Fraud mentality.

What has King East development have to do with Rob Ford? Nothing ... why are you going all straw man on this?

 

[neubilder]

I was referring to ongoing development in long established areas. Not the Waterfront, which is pretty much from scratch. There's no demand for anyone building that kind of low-rise big box on King East. I'm surprised you'd suggest otherwise!

Wrong. Big Box has been trying to build down there for years. The site at the foot of Parliament was going to be a Home Depot. It is planning initiatives and vision that managed to prevent it.

What has King East development have to do with Rob Ford? Nothing ... why are you going all straw man on this?

Where have you been? Did you not notice that the Ford's were trying to hijack the entire Waterfront Toronto plan? That they proposed to ditch the Don River wetlands restoration if favour of a Megamall?

 

[neubilder]

The waterfront isn't exactly King East, but the two are directly interrelated.

 

[nfitz]

Wrong. Big Box has been trying to build down there for years. The site at the foot of Parliament was going to be a Home Depot. It is planning initiatives and vision that managed to prevent it.

The foot of Parliament isn't King Street East - heck, not only is it the other side of the railway, it's also the other side of the Gardiner, and even the other side of Lakeshore! We were discussing redevelopment of an existing area - this is nothing to do with the Waterfront. Obviously the let people do what they do policy that has worked reasonably well on King, isn't going to work for what is for all intents and purposes, a new district.

Where have you been? Did you not notice that the Ford's were trying to hijack the entire Waterfront Toronto plan? That they proposed to ditch the Don River wetlands restoration if favour of a Megamall?

Once again - that's a completely different area. I simply noted that letting things run their relatively natural course has worked well on King East. No one would ever take that to mean that is what should happen in major redevelopments such as Waterfront.

And what do you mean where have I been? I made many negative comments about our bigot of a mayor's freakish waterfront proposals. But that doesn't have anything do with this ... I fail to understand the attempt at threadjacking.