News   Dec 23, 2025
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Miller turns to TTC public address system to get riders on board with funding push

Ottawa actually, assuming we remove politics from the situation and run by the numbers only.

Financially, growth in Toronto is likely to pay back damn near any transportation related investment in a pretty short time period through additional income and sales tax collected. Ottawa is less likely to do so as growth is directly related to government size which isn't really impacted by the transportation network and will occur, or not, regardless of that investment.

Ottawa should get a good tunnelled transit system but not because it will encourage economic growth; but for security reasons. I would expect the feds to fund a majority of it and for the military to be a stake-holder in the design.

That's taking the security argument too far. If the military had its way, they'd simply move all militar personnel outside of the Ottawa core. Anyway, the military isn't responsible for the security of all public infrastructure. Nor are they responsible for building subway. And nor are tunnelled subways necessarily more secure. (On a side note you might want to actually look up the roles and responsibilities of the CF).

The economic argument is only partially accurate. Ottawa is the commercial centre for all of eastern Ontario. It also has a fair sized high-tech sector. Not all economic activity in Ottawa is entirely dependent on the federal public sector. And regardless, if we are going to basing things on economic growth, then why spend much on the 416? Most of the GTA's economic and population growth is happening in the 905. If this is the line of reasoning, isn't that where the money should go? Obviously, we wouldn't want that. Sometimes you have to spend to strenghten the core network.

And that's exactly what Ottawa is doing. They are using transit money to strengthen the "bones" of the system if you will. And yet they are being penalized for that approach. One wonders if they would have been better off proposing a streetcar to every ward like Toronto and then having the province hack away a few chunks.

Anyway, I bring up Ottawa precisely because there are people on here who think that Toronto is somehow not getting special treatment under the current government. Compare Toronto' situation under the current government to Ottawa. Toronto get's a huge subway extension, a fully refurbished and extended grade separated LRT and another at-grade LRT for not much of its own money. Ottawa on the other hand has gotten a mere few km of BRT (that it has had to fund in part at least) and is being asked to pitch in a third of the cost for what amounts to an upgrade to an existing transit route. You can bet they'll want more. Their leaders are already asking for the same deal as Toronto.

And that brings me to my point. If Miller makes this about Toronto. That's exactly what it'll become. A bun fight between Toronto and every other major city in Ontario and every neighbouring suburb. He should be articulating how these transit cuts impact every community and demonstrating how cutting back in the 416 in particular hurts our neighbours. He should be showing some leadership and speaking out against the cuts more broadly. If he chooses to make it about Transit City so be it. But he shouldn't be surprised when sooner or later other municipalities wake up to the fact that they've gotten disproportionately screwed under this round of cuts and they start asking why Toronto isn't suffering as much (relatively speaking).
 
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The difference is, that Eglinton and Finch are already approaching the upper limit of their bus capacity. Upgrading is not just nice-to-have, it's pretty much essential. This is untrue for every other proposal except Ottawa.
 
The difference is, that Eglinton and Finch are already approaching the upper limit of their bus capacity. Upgrading is not just nice-to-have, it's pretty much essential. This is untrue for every other proposal except Ottawa.

which is why havin Sheppard East LRT as #1 priority makes no freakin sense. That money should go elsewhere.
This is why Transit City fails
 
I'd say Yonge/Bloor is not just reaching capacity but beyond it. How come that wasn't even on Miller's radar at all?

And as Ansem said, why Sheppard? Personally, I'd have a lot less beef with TC had Eglinton or Finch gone first. While I'd like to see a subway on Eglinton, I could have understood/settled for the half and half approach they had planned. But Sheppard of all projects? Really, some artics, bus lanes and a better configured entrance into Don Mills could have handled the job for years to come.

Anyway, Kettal, you are right that those other cities aren't quite maxing out yet. But you have cities like Ottawa and Mississauga (which really needs something on Hurontario). You gotta figure that they look at what got spared and its hard for them to feel sympathy for Toronto (especially if your an Ottawa resident). Making it all about Transit City might even make them feel threatened. What if they perceive that Miller is pushing for funding TC at any cost, and that what the rest of them have left is at stake?
 
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I'd Yonge/Bloor is not just reaching capacity but beyond it. How come that wasn't even on Miller's radar at all?

Politics my friend...
Back then, he was planning on running for mayor again before the garbage strike.

He wanted to be popular in the suburbs and fulfiling Lastman's legacy (the same rival calling him to dumb to be mayor) wasn't going to happen...

He killed RTES and came up with Transit City...His own legacy

There's nothing at all for downtown but the RTES would have taken some pressure off the Yonge line with commuter continuing to Dowsview instead of transfering at Sheppard-Yonge even if they work on University Avenue...
 
I agree this issue needs to be addressed, but at that time, Miller and company were focusing on a Transit network first.

A bit backward ain't it? The network is already precariously close to routine failure at that point. So what do we do? Find a way to bring even more riders to the Yonge line...
 
I'd say Yonge/Bloor is not just reaching capacity but beyond it. How come that wasn't even on Miller's radar at all?

And as Ansem said, why Sheppard? Personally, I'd have a lot less beef with TC had Eglinton or Finch gone first. While I'd like to see a subway on Eglinton, I could have understood/settled for the half and half approach they had planned. But Sheppard of all projects? Really, some artics, bus lanes and a better configured entrance into Don Mills could have handled the job for years to come.

No argument here. Sheppard should have been a low priority. A subway to vaughan should have been an even lower priority.
 
Ansem:

There's nothing at all for downtown but the RTES would have taken some pressure off the Yonge line with commuter continuing to Dowsview instead of transfering at Sheppard-Yonge even if they work on University Avenue...

Let's not be revisionist - the RTES stated specifically that any kind of YUS relief is unneeded (p. 13), and that Sheppard going to Downsview (Option A6) is actually eliminated from further study (p. 29).

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/reports/rtes2002.pdf

AoD
 
Ansem:



Let's not be revisionist - the RTES stated specifically that any kind of YUS relief is unneeded (p. 13), and that Sheppard going to Downsview (Option A6) is actually eliminated from further study (p. 29).

http://transit.toronto.on.ca/archives/reports/rtes2002.pdf

AoD

I meant commuters who work on University Avenue and starting from Sheppard East would continue to Downsview instead of stopping at Sheppard-Yonge and overloading the Yonge line.

Today's reality is that Sheppard West is densifying really fast and during rush hours, its hell between Allen Road and Yonge Street. Maybe back then it was irrelevent but today, this portion has it's merits and is needed.
 
A bit backward ain't it? The network is already precariously close to routine failure at that point. So what do we do? Find a way to bring even more riders to the Yonge line...

Well, sooner or later, we'll see which way the city goes, because either 1 of 2 things will happen:

1) Significantly expand Bloor/Yonge
2) DRL east leg up to Danforth.

Personally, Option 2 makes tons more sense.
 
Well, sooner or later, we'll see which way the city goes, because either 1 of 2 things will happen:

1) Significantly expand Bloor/Yonge
2) DRL east leg up to Danforth.

Personally, Option 2 makes tons more sense.

Well, the problem is that it's not sooner, it's later. In the original game plan there was no DRL on the horizon till TC was fully (or significantly) finished. Now that TC will take forever to finish, just imagine when the DRL will be built and how much costs will have inflated by then. This is my biggest beef with TC: priorities. By any definition the first project to go forwards should have been the DRL, before any other subway extension or new LRT (SRT refurb/replacement being the exception since that's literally falling apart). Instead, they prioritized Sheppard. Now look at the mess we have. And while it's not all Miller's fault, he must accept some of the blame for prioritizing projects the way he did.
 
Pretending like the DRL was all ready to move forward and then Miller swooped in with his dastardly Transit City plan is a little ridiculous. After Sheppard, no real transit expansion was on the table.
 
Pretending like the DRL was all ready to move forward and then Miller swooped in with his dastardly Transit City plan is a little ridiculous. After Sheppard, no real transit expansion was on the table.

Well it's not like Transit City "was all ready to move forward" either. He made a choice to prioritize Sheppard East over everything else in the city including Yonge/Bloor. It's only fair that he should wear it. You'll get to see Miller's legacy everytime there's the slightest delay and you are waiting five deep in the morning rush on the Bloor platform.
 
Keithz:

Well it's not like Transit City "was all ready to move forward" either. He made a choice to prioritize Sheppard East over everything else in the city including Yonge/Bloor.

If he did that, he probably wouldn't even have anything to show for it - anything involving the DRL will blow all the budgets to high heaven and be first on the chopping block when the axe did fall. Besides, what are the chances of DRL making through all the studies, EA, etc within the timeframe that Sheppard did? Zilch. Eglinton couldn't make it to tender stage either and DRL is considerably more complex than that.

You'll get to see Miller's legacy everytime there's the slightest delay and you are waiting five deep in the morning rush on the Bloor platform.

That's BS - perhaps you should recall what RTES said about the need for YUS relief. It was never a priority by anyone, with nothing but studies dated from 30 years ago and nowhere near shovel ready. Funny you're quoting Ottawa and argue that transit building is a multiyear project and do a 180 and lay all the blame on Miller. Which is it, really?

AoD
 
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