News   Mar 28, 2024
 1K     2 
News   Mar 28, 2024
 562     2 
News   Mar 28, 2024
 851     0 

City Workers Strike 2009

"which, when you think about it, means they're really mad at the unions' privileges" Taken out of a larger post but this kinda sums up in my opinion the true underlying cause for the bitterness towards unions regardless of what they do. Envy and jealousy. People just want to see others torn down because they don't have the same perks.

I don't think that is quite an accurate conclusion. Sure people are jealous. Who wouldn't want a better-than-inflation raise, more sick days than they currently get and the ability to save them up for future payout?

But most people also realize that just because they might want to have those benefits for themselves, it is not always feasible. In the private sector, there is only so much money that one's company earns (and can therefore pay out in salaries/benefits) and it simply is not reasonable for them and their fellow workers to be able to demand or expect those payments and perks.

That the public sector unions have a monopoly on their jobs and an employer who theoretically has nearly unlimited ability to tax in order to pay those workers means that they exist in essentially an artificial world that is seemingly disconnected from the rest of us (who are the ones who end up bearing the burden of providing the funds for those salaries and benefits).

It's not a matter that people don't want the unions to get those deals because they can't get them themselves, but it's because they realize it is not fiscally sound for the city (and ultimately them as tax paying citizens).
 
Yes. The public service tends not create wealth, it's job is to do the things which need to be done, but which will not contribute to the creation of wealth. It is a non-profit machine for the betterment of all citizens (not just the ones who work for it). It lives off the wealth created in the private sector, that it has expanded so far beyond the private sector should tell people that it has become a huge drain on the system from which it feeds.
 
Last edited:
I've thought of a better way to explain this situation.

This is largely a zero sum game. In the city's current situation, there will likely be a large tax increase due to union members believing that any privilege they've ever been given is suddenly theirs for life, and it would be "unfair" if it were taken away (bankable sick days, I'm looking in your direction).

Fine then, whatever anyone paid as a rate of taxes the first time they paid should be what they have to pay evermore, if not less. This would be the equivalent on the other end of the equation.
 
I've thought of a better way to explain this situation.

This is largely a zero sum game. In the city's current situation, there will likely be a large tax increase due to union members believing that any privilege they've ever been given is suddenly theirs for life, and it would be "unfair" if it were taken away (bankable sick days, I'm looking in your direction).

Fine then, whatever anyone paid as a rate of taxes the first time they paid should be what they have to pay evermore, if not less. This would be the equivalent on the other end of the equation.

The thing that really bothers me in all of this is that I bet a good number of city workers don't even live within the city, and thus don't pay City of Toronto taxes.

It sure must be easy to argue for higher wages on the backs of increased municipal taxes when you don't even pay those taxes.

I heard a bit of Miller's time on CBC Radio's Ontario Today while grabbing lunch. His argument is, essentially, that the majority of public sector workers across the province get a similar sick day benefit system and that Toronto's "phase out" is, in that regard, a big win and hopefully starts a domino effect.

He also argued that, should council vote this down, the inevitable result will be arbitration which will almost assuredly leave the sick day system in place for both current and new employees.
 
http://www.thestar.com/article/673947

At the bottom.

Discipline was another tricky issue. The two sides had a hard time agreeing on whether strikers accused of serious misbehaviour on the picket line could be disciplined when they go back to work.

A few face criminal charges. Mayor David Miller said any criminal charges will proceed but told reporters that on the more minor disciplinary measures "it's time to move forward" rather than dwell on past incidents.

*sigh*
 
Last edited:
His argument is, essentially, that the majority of public sector workers across the province get a similar sick day benefit system and that Toronto's "phase out" is, in that regard, a big win and hopefully starts a domino effect.

Other public unions gave it up without phasing out, and phasing out could take 35 years for some employees. Bankable sick days are dead! Long live bankable sick days!

He also argued that, should council vote this down, the inevitable result will be arbitration which will almost assuredly leave the sick day system in place for both current and new employees.

What a crock. Arbitration wasn't on the menu, the province let that be known. The city would have know from it's own health inspectors when that would have been coming, and made a deal when the writing was on the wall. Windsor held out much longer, and got a way better settlement as a result.
 
It's still Miller time for me

You know what makes me laugh the most??? Now the city non-union managers are all irate and are demanding pay raises / unfreezing. And how exactly are they going to achieve this? form a union and negotiate??? Ha I think not. That's the irony of it, a union can get together and legally bargain collectively a loose organization of non-union managers can do - well, nothing. If they unionized they would be able to negotiate something!

I don't see why Miller is getting all the flack here, he has to act within legalities, he has to respect that a union exists and there's a prescribed method to collective barganing. People are irate at Miller saying he's 'caved to the unions', I don't buy it.

The unions did give some stuff up, maybe not enough for the public not to do a hatchet job on both unions and the city council, but I see that the union gave up some of what they had before.
 
You know what makes me laugh the most??? Now the city non-union managers are all irate and are demanding pay raises / unfreezing. And how exactly are they going to achieve this? form a union and negotiate??? Ha I think not. That's the irony of it, a union can get together and legally bargain collectively a loose organization of non-union managers can do - well, nothing. If they unionized they would be able to negotiate something!

You're laughing at the people who worked 80 hour weeks with a pay freeze to keep the city going while the union stood on the sidelines whining and watching? You're actually laughing at them. Unbelieveable.
I won't say what I want to here, because that would get me banned from the forum...It's really, really difficult not too, though.

Yes, I guess if we all just formed unions we'd all be richer. That's how it'd work, right? Pthththth. There's not enough wealth to go around paying all the least skilled workers $60k a year plus every benefit under the sun. There's just not, get over it. If everyone lived under those sunny circumstances, someone with the skills of say, a manager at the city of Toronto would have to be paid $200 000 or so, I'd guess.

I don't see why Miller is getting all the flack here, he has to act within legalities, he has to respect that a union exists and there's a prescribed method to collective barganing. People are irate at Miller saying he's 'caved to the unions', I don't buy it.

The unions did give some stuff up, maybe not enough for the public not to do a hatchet job on both unions and the city council, but I see that the union gave up some of what they had before.

Act within legalities? I'm not sure what you mean by that. He doesn't have to respect the union exists, it's perfectly legal to tenure out work to organizations other than the public union. Happens all the time.

Considering what the city's finances are, and what the economic climate is, the union didn't give up anything worth while. No real savings will be had anytime soon, and soon is when we need them.
 
Last edited:
I heard a bit of Miller's time on CBC Radio's Ontario Today while grabbing lunch. His argument is, essentially, that the majority of public sector workers across the province get a similar sick day benefit system and that Toronto's "phase out" is, in that regard, a big win and hopefully starts a domino effect.

It is strange that by lunch time he would be portraying it as a precedent setting move. On Breakfast Television this morning he defended it by saying it is the same thing that was previously done by Her Honour the mayor in Mississauga and by Doug Holiday in the former city of Etobicoke?
 
The unions did give some stuff up, maybe not enough for the public not to do a hatchet job on both unions and the city council, but I see that the union gave up some of what they had before.

This is the first chaper in a long saga. Let's see how this works out if the provinces refuses to keep bailing out Toronto and the taxpayers balk at the massive tax and fee increases that are sure to come next year and for several years after that. Sooner or later, the unions will push the residents of this city to elect a mayor who will make Mike Harris look like an 80 year old Grandma who gave out candy-coated kittens to toddlers. Even the provincial unions were no where near this militant when Mike Harris got elected. Your smug attitude and that of the various picketers throughout this city is not something residents will forget any time soon.
 
Seymour, why the change of heart?

http://urbantoronto.ca/showpost.php?p=293583&postcount=415

Seriously F@%k this strike.

I am in a union (not CUPE) and I do not support this strike. Believe it or not I think the city (Miller, negotiators, managers) are right on this one. The city's financial problems were well known, well documented, and left over form the Harris years downloading of services. I am sorry but even having paid sick days is a serious privilege on its own, banking them and cashing them out at retirement is RIDICULOUS!

How can 24,000 go so long without working / getting paid! Mortgages, rent, credit cards, & bills don't care if you're on strike or not, HOW do these people go so long without getting a pay cheque. I'd be freaking if I was forced to be on strike.

This is ridiculous, the union needs to make concessions, the union conditions are already far better than non-union, they should open their eyes, back down, end this strike and get their sorry a$$es back to work.

And for all the cynics/Miller-bashers, well this proves he is not a "union-loving" NDP'er. Exactly the same thing is happening as it did when Bob Rae was Premier of Ontario. He needed to cut some costs, so he brought in Rae-days (unpaid days off work) and the unions turned against him. Imagine that - an unpaid day every now & then to hang with your family...oooooh that's so terrible!

I support Miller & the city managers in this instance. They are standing their ground, dealing with their financial struggles and not giving in.
 
This is the first chaper in a long saga. Let's see how this works out if the provinces refuses to keep bailing out Toronto and the taxpayers balk at the massive tax and fee increases that are sure to come next year and for several years after that. Sooner or later, the unions will push the residents of this city to elect a mayor who will make Mike Harris look like an 80 year old Grandma who gave out candy-coated kittens to toddlers. Even the provincial unions were no where near this militant when Mike Harris got elected. Your smug attitude and that of the various picketers throughout this city is not something residents will forget any time soon.
Normally I'm much more centrist, but I'm almost hoping for this. Every so often, a purge can be a good thing.

The car companies went through it to a certain extent recently. Perhaps the public sector should too.
 
^ the Harris purge is a disaster we're still paying for, so I'm far from hoping for it.

What we need is a pragmatic non-ideologue, but such people seem to be in short supply.
 
^ the Harris purge is a disaster we're still paying for, so I'm far from hoping for it.

What we need is a pragmatic non-ideologue, but such people seem to be in short supply.

I am not saying I am hoping for it but if labour costs (the largest budget item for the city) can't be controlled, and it forces huge tax and fee increases, how long do you think the public will stand for it? Miller didn't have to cut wages. He simply had to push for more productivity improvements that would have helped stabilize the city's finances.

Given that this settlement has not done anything to rein in labour costs (it merely removed a liability that the city faced years down the road), a stiff tax increase to cover next year's deficit is highly likely. I foresee heavy fee increases and maybe an 8-10% tax hike for homeowners, if there's no provincial bailout. Expect TTC fares to go up well beyond the standard 10 cent hike as well.
 
Although I pretty much expect Council to pass the new collective agreements tomorrow I received an additional two emails today with very detailed explanations as to why they are voting against the contracts from Councillors Cliff Jenkins and Peter Milczyn. I think that brings 14 "no's", 1 abstain, 10 undecideds and 6 yes votes for tomorrow. No reply from the balance (13) of City Councillors that I wrote to. I'd post the last two responses because I think they are quite interesting but I don't think that is appropriate on a public forum.
As reported on the 6pm Toronto news channels, Miller is going to be working the phones real hard tonight to assure these get through tomorrow.
 

Back
Top