narduch
Senior Member
I think calling Ireland a bunch of Russian stooges crosses the line. Its simply not true.
Not agreeing with NATO doesn't make you a Russian puppet. NATO are not infallible
|
|
|
Canada and the World
- Thread starter kEiThZ
- Start date
Not agreeing with NATO doesn't make you a Russian puppet. NATO are not infallible
Full Metal Junkie
Active Member
All true. My question was not about any of that. Again, anything wrong with how the cited RUSI article summarized the positions of the president of Ireland? The article did not call her a Russian puppet, that was @kEiThZ insinuation.
kEiThZ
Superstar
World's oldest military think tank and policy institute gets grants from the British and American militaries. Shocker.
I have a membership. So do a good chunk of military officers from around the world because they have some of the world's best academic work on war and security issues. We also send Canadian officers there for academic sabbaticals.
Next up how the Munk Institute is a tool of the US Government cause some prof there got a grant from the State Department.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Cool. Feel free to post sources explaining the views of Ireland's President.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Maybe puppet is strong. Let's go for a nation of hypocritical moochers who massively benefit off EU and NATO security while suggesting that these institutions are somehow responsible for the largest war in Europe since WWII. We all know what their opinion would be if they were bordering Russia instead of the UK.
And again, they did the same in WWII with the excuse that their former Imperial master was no different than the Nazis.
I hope we move to a world where security and trade are better linked so free riders like Ireland can get the opportunity to put their money where their mouths are.
Last edited:
narduch
Senior Member
This is just you editorializing because of your own set of biases.
Pretty obvious you are pro war and get upset with any nations that aren't and actual believe in justice.
narduch
Senior Member
It's also funny to accuse other nations of being Russian stooges considering who the current US president is.
If you actually truly gave a shit about containing Russia, the sitting US President being soft on Russia should be way more concerning to you than what goes on in a mostly inconsequential nation of only around 5 million people.
If you actually truly gave a shit about containing Russia, the sitting US President being soft on Russia should be way more concerning to you than what goes on in a mostly inconsequential nation of only around 5 million people.
Last edited:
Full Metal Junkie
Active Member
I agree with this evaluation of the quality of work by RUSI. Some of the best military analysis out there. And yes, i don't see anything nefarious in a Western military think tank being funded by Western governments. I was just trying to get @narduch to critique the actual substance of the article rather than the author's sources of funding.
Yes, that's a much more fair assessment of Irish foreign policy.
There is nothing "anti-war" or "just" about Ireland freeloading off of NATO. There are neutral countries, and then there are freeloading posers like Ireland. No one has problems with neutral countries, as long as those countries are capable of defending themselves, just like Switzerland and Austria for example. There is a problem, however, when Ireland implicitly expects EU and NATO do defend its territory and critical infrastructure, which it is incapable to protect itself due to near-zero military spending. On top of that Ireland has the audacity to preach from a moral high ground about Europe's legitimate concerns like the ever-westwardly-expanding Russian borders.
5 million people just happens to be the exact size of an inconsequential nation of Finland, who up until a couple of years abo were a neutral country. They pretty much were forced out of their decades-long neutrality by the Russian invasion of Ukraine, because they saw what happens to Russian neighbors if they don't join NATO in time. So let's run some comparisons between Finland and Ireland.
Finnish armed forces size - 280K active wartime personnel, additional 870K in reserves
Irish armed forces - 6.3K active, 1.3K reserves.
Finland was a proper neutral country before joining NATO. Neutral does not mean unarmed. Neutral means not being a part of any military alliance but being prepared to fight for your existence should anyone invade. And that is simply not what Ireland is. Ireland knows that the big NATO brother will have no choice but protect them and their critical infrastructure in case of war. And it's a very convenient way for them to have near-zero military spending while sitting on their pacifist high horse and accuse everyone else of being warmongers.
narduch
Senior Member
Well I think Ireland's stance is correct.
I'm obviously not going to convince a bunch of people who are Hawks otherwise.
Complaining that they aren't doing their share for the war machine makes it sound like Nato is basically a protection racket or a mafia.
Full Metal Junkie
Active Member
There is nothing hawkish about being able to defend yourself. Historically, countries incapable of defending themselves get trampled and erased from history. And sadly, despite us living in the 21st century, nothing has changed about that fact. So you either man up and do whatever it is necessary to deter some asshole in Kremlin from even thinking of invading your country, or you run your military into the ground, like Ukraine did in 90's and 2000's and then you find out just how quickly the Kremlin asshole will make mince meat out of your people.
And the only reason Ireland is not in the same boat as Ukraine is because there is an entire European continent between them and Russia. European continent that bound themselves in the largest military alliance in history in order to deter assholes like Russia from even thinking about invading them. They did their part so that all of Europe, including Ireland, could live in peace for now. And while the rest of Europe did what it takes for peace, Ireland did nothing. But yeah, Europe are the baddies. And Ireland is a saint.
#whatever.
lenaitch
Senior Member
We have come very close to a similar situation. Sure, we had a membership card for the club, but we weren't paying our dues and loved to go around lecturing other countries about how they should conduct themselves.
Funny how we don't hear about Switzerland lecturing other nations.
Funny how we don't hear about Switzerland lecturing other nations.
kEiThZ
Superstar
My views on Trump have been clear in the forum. Your views on those who suggest Ukraine deserved it are not. How short do you think a skirt has to be to justify the largest war in Europe?
kEiThZ
Superstar
Canada has the same mindset as Ireland. Perhaps why it hits home when they get called out. Funny, everybody here loves the socialist policies of the Nordics (as do I). But they balk at the adult part of that equation: massive militarization with conscription.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Dan416
Senior Member
Honestly I think EBT is just a troll. I skip over his messages as they are completely unreadable Russian propaganda. I think everyone should stop feeding the troll. He reminds me of the poster obsessed with running trains to northern Ontario who has derailed many a thread.