stevensontransit
Active Member
Yes and they also need wider span of services 7 days a week on major routes and it’s good to see the one fare program with the potential extension beyond March 31, 2026 in the budget and their advocacy to extend it.
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chrisw
Active Member
Hopefully there will be an comprehensive 5 year plan paired with a boost in funding to implement it. Also, York Region operates on a four-year budget cycle, so the 2027 Budget will be especially important, setting the direction and framework for the years ahead.
www.york.ca
You can check out the Tabled Budget here.
In the proposed 2026 Annual Transit Plan, service increases of about 73,000 hours (or 5%) were planned. So seeing only a 4% increase now is a bit disappointing, since it means not all of the initiatives from that plan will be able to move ahead.
This part is a bit more encouraging. There's some flexibility to add service hours beyond the budgeted amount if ridership grows more than expected.
Budgets
Every year, York Regional Council approves the capital budget and operating budget for the next year.The operating and capital budgets outline how York Region will use its finances to deliver essential services to residents. York Region budgets to reach short and long term goals while aligning...
You can check out the Tabled Budget here.
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Bordercollie
Senior Member
What happened to route 360? There are no scheduled runs?Hopefully there will be an comprehensive 5 year plan paired with a boost in funding to implement it. Also, York Region operates on a four-year budget cycle, so the 2027 Budget will be especially important, setting the direction and framework for the years ahead.
In the proposed 2026 Annual Transit Plan, service increases of about 73,000 hours (or 5%) were planned. So seeing only a 4% increase now is a bit disappointing, since it means not all of the initiatives from that plan will be able to move ahead.
This part is a bit more encouraging. There's some flexibility to add service hours beyond the budgeted amount if ridership grows more than expected.
Budgets
Every year, York Regional Council approves the capital budget and operating budget for the next year.The operating and capital budgets outline how York Region will use its finances to deliver essential services to residents. York Region budgets to reach short and long term goals while aligning...
You can check out the Tabled Budget here.
chrisw
Active Member
Seasonal, only runs on Fri/Sat/Sun/Holidays or when Wonderland is open.
Bordercollie
Senior Member
Most people take it to the mall. You would think it would still be useful for that.
chrisw
Active Member
Well, more people take the mall on the weekend. Also, these express buses that take 407 can be more expensive, and they have less stops.
You'll have to transfer but there's many different routings you can take. You could take the 85 across 16th/Rutherford to Vaughan Mills.
Or you can take the 20 Jane or 320 Jane Express, you can take a GO Bus or Viva Orange to transfer to that.
doady
Senior Member
The net subsidy of York Region Transit operations is already much higher than Brampton and Mississauga,
Net operating budget 2019
York Region Transit $135.7M
MiWay $97.4M
Brampton Transit $66.7M
Net operating budget, 2025
York Region Transit $220.2M
MiWay $121.0M
Brampton Transit $94.5M
Before taking inflation into account, York Region is actually spending 62% more on transit service in 2025 than they did in 2019.
And yes, I did math to get that 62% figure.
Northern Light
Superstar
That's nice. But isn't the correct measure.
What you want is gross investment per capita.
Here's why:
First, per capita, adjusts the total spend to a per person level, that's important, obviously, because it speaks to available resources (more people, more money), but also how many riders need to be served.
Second, you want the gross operating budget, because that's what determines the level of service you can run, and the fares you can charge, if those numbers are high, you would expect higher ridership, which means a lower subsidy per rider. If the gross spend is lower, then you're going to run less frequent service and charge a higher fare, which in turn means lower ridership and a higher subsidy per rider.
So let's make those numbers happen:
From: https://fao-on.org/en/report/transit-subsidies-2024/
York Region: 221M is the gross budget, per capita {1.2M people) $184.16 per person.
Miway: 215M is the gross budget, per capita ( 780,000 people) $275.64 per person
Brampton: 190M is the gross budget, per capita (790,000 people) $240.50 per person
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Yes, York's subsidy is higher per rider, because it has fewer riders, because it runs considerably less service attracting fewer people.
Lets compare this as service hours per capita (2024)
YRT: 1.4 Million hours / 1.2M people is 1.16 hours of service per resident per year.
Miway:1.64 Million hours / 780,000 people is 2.1 hours of service per resident per year
Brampton: 1.35 Million hours /790,000 people is 1.7 hours per capita
****
Put simply, YRT's per rider subsidy is higher, but its per resident budget is lower, and its service per resident is lower, which directly correlates to the higher subsidy per rider.
Looked at another way
YRT: Ridership per capita 19.7 rides annually
Miway Ridership per capita: 74.5 rides annually
Brampton: Ridership per capita 62.27 annually
Clearly YRT has very few riders to spread its costs over, and it has very few riders, because it has crappy service.
doady
Senior Member
Uh no, 24% cost recovery is already ridiculously low. No way it should get any lower. In per capita terms, York Region taxpayers already subsidizing transit to same extent as Brampton and Mississauga.
Per capita is based on urban population, and York Region has large rural areas. It also has a significant population in small towns and tiny urban enclaves like King City, Stouffeville, and Keswick which you cannot expect to have high transit ridership.
YRT also has to deal with a long border and shared thoroughfare with Toronto. That not only makes lack of integration a greater concern, it also means a large number of riders are actually taking the TTC Steeles buses instead of YRT. There's also the TTC subway extension that took even more riders away from YRT.
MiWay riders per capita in 2024 is actually around 55. That is 41.4 million riders serving a population of ~750k. Even if they fix their mistakes (e.g. lack of all day service along Bur Oak, divided service along Highway 7), 55-60 per capita is not realistic for YRT, same way 150-200 per capita to match TTC and STM is not realistic for MiWay and Brampton Transit.
MiWay revenue service hours in 2024 was actually 1.45 million. As a regular MiWay user, I wish it was 1.64 million so they would stop running articulated buses every 35 minutes along Britannia Road, but sadly no.
YRT service level today is much higher than Mississauga Transit 20 years ago (1.4 million vs. 1.1 million service hours) but ridership is much lower (23.7 million vs. 28.0 million). The amount of riders per service hour is 2/3 that of MiWay. The two places are just built differently, and they are served by the TTC differently.
Per capita is based on urban population, and York Region has large rural areas. It also has a significant population in small towns and tiny urban enclaves like King City, Stouffeville, and Keswick which you cannot expect to have high transit ridership.
YRT also has to deal with a long border and shared thoroughfare with Toronto. That not only makes lack of integration a greater concern, it also means a large number of riders are actually taking the TTC Steeles buses instead of YRT. There's also the TTC subway extension that took even more riders away from YRT.
MiWay riders per capita in 2024 is actually around 55. That is 41.4 million riders serving a population of ~750k. Even if they fix their mistakes (e.g. lack of all day service along Bur Oak, divided service along Highway 7), 55-60 per capita is not realistic for YRT, same way 150-200 per capita to match TTC and STM is not realistic for MiWay and Brampton Transit.
MiWay revenue service hours in 2024 was actually 1.45 million. As a regular MiWay user, I wish it was 1.64 million so they would stop running articulated buses every 35 minutes along Britannia Road, but sadly no.
YRT service level today is much higher than Mississauga Transit 20 years ago (1.4 million vs. 1.1 million service hours) but ridership is much lower (23.7 million vs. 28.0 million). The amount of riders per service hour is 2/3 that of MiWay. The two places are just built differently, and they are served by the TTC differently.
Northern Light
Superstar
We fundamentally disagree how how to evaluate and compare these services.
I will continue to use the methods I have endorsed, feel free to continue yours.
chrisw
Active Member
The 2024 report was based on 2022 data.
From the 2026 budget,
As a result of higher ridership, YRT covered more of its operating costs from fare revenues in 2024. For
every dollar it cost to provide transit, fares covered 39 cents, close to Regional Council’s target of 40 cents. The provincial gas tax contributed about five cents. Almost all the balance was covered by the tax levy.
doady
Senior Member
Well, I was just going by the numbers Northern Light posted. I should have guessed they were way off, the same way his MiWay ridership numbers were way off. I have no clue where 1.64 million hours and 74.5 riders per capita comes from. Latter sounds like boardings per capita (58.1 million boardings in 2024) rather than revenue riders (41.4 million). (Note though that MiWay's numbers do not include the contracted TTC 52 Lawrence West along Airport Road to Malton.)
Target of 40% cost recovery ratio is quite reasonable and normal for a transit agency in Canada. Mississauga and Brampton are both ~45%. If York Region really wants to be more like Mississauga and Brampton, they should follow their example, shouldn't they?
But as I said, York Region's busiest east-west corridor being served by the TTC already makes it impossible for YRT to have the same service hours and ridership per capita as MiWay and Brampton Transit. Over 90% of non-Viva ridership and service is in Markham, Vaughan, and southern Richmond Hill, where only 900k people of the region's 1.3M live, which further hurts YRT's per capita numbers.
To put things in perspective, the TTC Steeles buses get around 50k boardings per weekday. while YRT get around 120k per weekday. TTC Steeles buses had 607 vehicle hours per weekday in 2024. Service hours are slightly less than vehicle hours, but still that should be close to 200k service hours total in a year, compared to 1.4 million service hours that YRT itself provided. The level of service in Markham/Vaughan/Richmond Hill is actually quite close to Brampton and Mississauga, but the ridership is half.
Note though that trying to match Mississauga and Brampton's level of service comes as a very high cost for riders in Markham/Vaughan/Richmond Hill. If they paid $3.40 fare instead $4.15, the cost recovery ratio of YRT would be closer to 32%. Whether the taxpayer or the rider, York Region is already paying extra for transit.
Northern Light
Superstar
Excuse me? I sourced all my info from official regional documents. There is nothing inaccurate about what I posted, its merely that @chrisw has a more recent source for one data set.
Their example is driven by higher ridership, which is driven by higher service frequency.
Ridership is where where the service is.
doady
Senior Member
And where exactly does those documents say that MiWay has 1.65 million service hours and 74.7 riders per capita annually? 1.65 million service hours sounds like pre-COVID levels, and 74.7 riders per capita sounds like boardings rather than revenue riders (should be around 53-55).
If that were true, MiWay would not need to put articulated buses on routes with 35 minute frequencies such as 39 Britannia.
Places like Newmarket and King City will never have ridership like Mississauga and Brampton. I don't know why anyone would expect that.
The whole goal of transit-oriented development is to get people closer to transit. Some places are built for transit, some aren't. Vaughan, Markham, and Richmond Hill have a better chance to get riders than places like Georgina or Whitchurch-Stouffville.
If you want to compare YRT to other systems, only its ridership and service level within Vaughan, Markham and Richmond Hill can be compared to MiWay and Brampton Transit. The system's performance in Newmarket and Aurora should be compared instead to Oakville Transit and Milton Transit. Stouffville and Georgina can be compared to places like Halton Hills and Caledon.
drum118
Superstar
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