junctionist
Senior Member
You'd be surprised at how many people actually oppose buried utilities because of the inaccurate belief that overhead wires are more reliable.
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Blixtein
Active Member
We’re 15 months away from celebrating this thread’s 20th anniversary with absolutely nothing to show for it.
Towered
Superstar
Chronno gonna chronno
nstuch
Active Member
even the before state looks a million times better than Toronto
Mihairokov
Senior Member
We don't have to look as far as Sydney - Montreal kicks our ass on most things streetscape and pedestrianization. Feels like they're ten years ahead of us on updating their streets.
Towered
Superstar
It's their European flair. Toronto just doesn't have it. Never did and never will. Blandness abounds here.
T3G
Senior Member
I disagree, if you look at old photos of the city it looked pretty gorgeous.
The blandness came about here, as it did in so many places, after World War II, and never really went away.
biospherian
Active Member
You know what this feels like watching?
A friend that says he'll write a novel, plans for years, but never writes a sentence.
A friend that says he'll write a novel, plans for years, but never writes a sentence.
6ixGod
Active Member
I have yet to hear a single tourist describe Toronto that way. Lacking a large historic urban core because your city was established a century later than another does not make it bland. That is simply a poor argument.
Toronto’s European settlement (York) dates to 1793, compared with Montreal’s Ville-Marie in 1642. That century-plus head start produced a larger historic “old city” with narrower streets and finer-grain urban fabric. Had Toronto been established even 100 years earlier, it too would have a much larger historic core. Urban form follows history not culture.
The more important difference today is economic reality. Toronto is booming in a way Montreal simply is not. Montreal has experienced slower growth and declining relative national importance compared with Toronto, which translates into lower economic and infrastructural pressure. That reduced pressure allows Montreal to “get away with” pedestrianisation projects that would be far more complex to implement in Toronto.
None of this is an argument against revitalising Yonge Street or making it more pedestrian friendly. It absolutely should be improved. But simply copying Montreal misunderstands Toronto’s scale and role. Any successful approach on Yonge must be Toronto-specific: transit first, capacity driven, carefully phased and designed to accommodate intensity.
It would also help if the City clearly explained how these changes actually improve business outcomes for the shopkeepers currently complaining about construction. Frankly, it was astonishing how many store owners opposed the RapidTO bus and streetcar lanes or the removal of on-street parking. A basic public education campaign from the City would go a long way.
Instead, we are left with “CANADA PROUD” Facebook groups calling RapidTO lanes a form of socialism and communism….apparently the lanes are also the fault of Trudeau…..which tells you exactly how unserious much of the opposition really is.
JasonParis
Moderator
I've almost never met someone who hated Toronto as a tourist. Even from places like Paris. There's something to be said for our messy, yet vital, urbanism.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Toronto is a lot of things, good and bad, but bland is most certainly not one of them.
Toronto is an incredibly dynamic and interesting city. Montreal is certainly more bohemian and has the historic architecture to die for but it is not nearly as interesting a city as Toronto. Toronto is a disorganized mess but in the best possible meaning of the word. It's got the hardcore urban grit and is a fantastic city to explore because you never know what's around the corner. Vancouver is the dumb blond, Montreal is Sophia Lauren, and Toronto is that once staid businessman who starting taking crack.......disfunctional and disoriented, but full of surprises and wildly entertaining while underneath it all still ruggedly handsome.
I've been to two of the most beautiful cities on the planet, Paris and San Francisco, and they are truly wonderful cities but I would take Toronto over either any day of the week. Beauty may attract you but only interesting will want you coming back for more.
Toronto is an incredibly dynamic and interesting city. Montreal is certainly more bohemian and has the historic architecture to die for but it is not nearly as interesting a city as Toronto. Toronto is a disorganized mess but in the best possible meaning of the word. It's got the hardcore urban grit and is a fantastic city to explore because you never know what's around the corner. Vancouver is the dumb blond, Montreal is Sophia Lauren, and Toronto is that once staid businessman who starting taking crack.......disfunctional and disoriented, but full of surprises and wildly entertaining while underneath it all still ruggedly handsome.
I've been to two of the most beautiful cities on the planet, Paris and San Francisco, and they are truly wonderful cities but I would take Toronto over either any day of the week. Beauty may attract you but only interesting will want you coming back for more.
Blixtein
Active Member
Toronto is a mess but it’s a vibrant, urban mess.
savevp
Active Member
Toronto's charming and dynamic urbanism is wonderful, but that doesn't excuse the antipathy toward even basic public realm standards. As someone who lived there, Sydney isn't particularly special regarding public realm, they just make something of an effort. Montréal does too, and that's why Ste Catharine is so incredible to walk along, among other streets. Basic things like quality pavements and appropriate traffic light design would go a long way; our only real examples are Bloor Yorkville and Market Street, and maybe a tiny bit Front Street by Union. We've got a long way to go. Yonge Street should just be the start, but a paradigm shift in urban design is still seemingly a long way off for us.
Still, the form and dynamic urban experience of Toronto are among the very best.
Still, the form and dynamic urban experience of Toronto are among the very best.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I totally agree. Toronto needs a 180 turn on it's urban realm. Yonge Street should be at the very top of the list but also Queen, King, John, Ossington, and Kensington. They should all have their sidewalks doubled in width and some parts completely pedestrianized. That's the shame of Toronto, it has so much more potential but it has a bunch of gutless and non-visionary councilors and Mayor who are more concerned about renaming streets then actually improving them.
afransen
Senior Member
This will probably need to wait until after the Ford era, sadly.