afransen
Senior Member
Some improved shoulder stations flanking Union.
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GO 2.0 Expansion Plan
- Thread starter crs1026
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
Hmmm, of the above.....
I would be satisifed by getting 15M service to Mt. Pleasant in that phase. Electrifying all the way to K-W has its appeal to be sure, but it would burn up a lot of money.
I think 2-way, all-day, 15M would be fine, and can be done conventionally. Again, I don't oppose electrification, but its a question of finite resources.
The above I'm 100% behind, I would take them as a group and work through the lot.
Sure, again, not stuck on electrification. Open to it. The only line I consider mandatory for it is LSW/LSE because I would like to see service ramped up to 10M or less frequency and shorter travel times, with infill stations, all of which taken together all but require electrification.
These three I'm open to, but think are lower priority.
I would substitute:
8. GO Mid-town (Milton corridor to Agincourt or beyond.) I think this yields a better ROI.
9. Relocation/diversion of GO K-W corridor into Pearson to serve the airport directly with conventional GO.
10. Extension of Barrie, yes......but for now, I'm down with one additional stop near 400 or just west there of on the BCRY. Getting to Blue Mountain/Collingwood is a big jump and I'd be worried about encouraging sprawl.
11. Considering options to get GO closer to Clifton Hill. This could be a regional LRT from the existing station to said destination; but there are a few options on existing/former ROWs/Canal routes/hydro corridors that could get you much more into the heart of the Falls.
12. Re-alignment of a portion of the Barrie corridor between mid York region and Barrie if it could result in sufficient travel time savings. (Big if, but I haven't seen it modelled). I consider the existing travel time excessive) and I think that impedes the idea of extensions to Collingwood or Orillia when its already a long haul as it is.....
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Dan416
Senior Member
Has this ever been studied in detail? How realistic / doable is it?
Northern Light
Superstar
I don't know how detailed.......but yes......it is/was part of the Pearson 'Union West' concept for a major transit hub that would also connect to the Eglinton Crosstown and Finch West LRT(s)
Very. There are certainly questions about whether you need to tunnel some of the route, and whether that would necessitate going to electric.....its very feasible.
TwoWheelPoli
Active Member
Is there really a need for Hamilton GO Centre when West Harbour GO already has all-day service and continues on to Niagara Falls? I would rather have all GO buses diverted to West Harbour and shut down Hamilton GO Centre.
Fully agree on most of the other suggestions, though Collingwood would probably have to be bus service given the tracks from Angus to Collingwood have been converted to a rail trail.
urbanclient
Active Member
"Extension of 15-minute electrified service to Stouffville." This is under the current GO 1.0 Expansion plan that was descoped and relegated into phase 2 after phase 1 two lakeshore lines get electrified?
crs1026
Superstar
I don't disagree with any of these, but you are probably up to GO 5.0
We really need a scope and funding document that lets the public measure performance against a defined set of objectives. And lays out a concrete and sufficient funding source to assure these deliverables can be paid for. (Other jurisdictions are far more explicit about municipal taxes, bond issues etc connected to specific transit projects - Ontario pretends that money just arrives or falls out of trees)
To my mind, putting the 2.0 proposal on the table is effectively bolting from the restaurant without paying the tab. The current and previous governments put out elaborate plans for GO RER or GO Expansion, but have not delivered. We need to get back to basics and insist that this body of work be completed. So my take :
GO 1.0 -
- Complete 15 minute 2WAD to Mount Pleasant, Unionville, Aurora, Burlington, and Oshawa
- Complete hourly 2WAD to Confederation and Kitchener
- Complete peak service to Bowmanville
- Electrify LSE/LSW and UPE
GO 2.0
- 2WAD to Milton
- 30 min 2WAD to Kitchener and Confederation
- Hourly 2WAD to St Catharines
- Improved velocity through Hamilton/ Bayview
- Electrify Aurora, Unionville, and possibly Mount Pleasant
- Purchase Niagara and Kitchener-London
- Bihourly service to London and Niagara
GO 3.0
- Bolton
- North Toronto
- Cambridge
- Paul
Northern Light
Superstar
The argument would be that Hamilton GO Centre is in the heart of downtown and the LRT is nearby, making for more convenient location/connection.
West Harbour lacks the LRT connection and is a meaningful walk to downtown. (over 1km)
I see plenty of potential in retaining Hamilton GO Centre, and there are possibilities for service beyond same on those tracks.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
Agree re retaining Hamilton GO Centre. It’s Hamilton’s real downtown station. There is a solution to get electrified rapid GO service there, but it is not cheap and requires a ton of new infrastructure, especially to deal with the Bayview issues (there is a way to avoid Bayview) and the Hunter Street tunnel. Beyond Hamilton GO Centre, you have an abandoned RoW that gets you close to John C. Munro Airport (you could build a spur there). This airport link could be a catalyst for helping the airport grow, but of course the airport does not do the flight numbers to justify a rail link today.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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Seems like this plan is dead.
Undead
Senior Member
GO Max Pro Ultra.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
I have to say, having recently used the astonishing WestConnex in Sydney — a 22km (!) expressway tunnel running under much of the inner city — I am coming to a different view than most on the 401 scheme’s feasibility.
Clearly it’s a crazy idea, there are vastly better uses for the funds, and if it is ever built it will probably be beyond our lifetimes. But mega-tunnel projects like this are not *impossible.*
Of course, they only make the slightest sense with very steep tolls, which we’ve decided in Ontario are communism, or something.
urbancog
Active Member
On Oct 3rd, 2023, HDR was awarded work for a 2051 Regional Transit Plan. As I'm sure you're well aware, that's exactly what this work should have delivered, and yet we've not seen any public consultation or deliverables from this $250k award. Perhaps now they've employed Metrolinx's former VP of Station Planning as their global transit planning practice lead, we'll get her personal vision for GO Rail and Subways.
DavidJamesTO
Active Member
Would be quite the climb to get up the mountain, but it would certainly help get traffic there.
6ixGod
Active Member
It looks like GO Expansion has slowed down, and in some ways it has….not because the idea is dead, but because the execution keeps getting dragged out. There’s still planning, signalling upgrades, track work and corridor prep happening, but major parts of the original vision have been descoped, timelines pushed out, and the whole “European-style regional rail” promise feels a lot further away than it did a few years ago. Some corridors are progressing; others are bogged down in design, budget pressures, or contract resets. So yes, it’s moving….but slower, scaled back, and with far less urgency than the region actually needs.
And honestly, this is exactly what happens when you let boomers stay in charge long after the region has outgrown their worldview. I’ve said it a billion times: the rate at which Toronto and Ontario have grown hasn’t caught up with the mentality of the people running it. In their lifetimes they watched the GTHA go from a modest mid-continent region to the fourth-largest urban area in North America. For millennials, that scale is normal….we grew up in a big city.
But at City Council, at Queen’s Park, and across the leadership class in general, you still have people who think like it’s the 1960s and 70s. People like Doug Ford, Olivia Chow, and that entire political generation still treat Toronto and Ontario as if they’re small, quiet, predictable places. That mindset shapes budgets, timelines, priorities….everything!
So we get projects like GO Expansion inching along, re-scoped, delayed, and underpowered. We’re trying to run a 2025 megacity with the instincts of people who came of age in a completely different world. And until that mismatch changes (at City Hall and Queen’s Park) this is exactly the kind of infrastructure stagnation we’re going to keep seeing.
And honestly, this is exactly what happens when you let boomers stay in charge long after the region has outgrown their worldview. I’ve said it a billion times: the rate at which Toronto and Ontario have grown hasn’t caught up with the mentality of the people running it. In their lifetimes they watched the GTHA go from a modest mid-continent region to the fourth-largest urban area in North America. For millennials, that scale is normal….we grew up in a big city.
But at City Council, at Queen’s Park, and across the leadership class in general, you still have people who think like it’s the 1960s and 70s. People like Doug Ford, Olivia Chow, and that entire political generation still treat Toronto and Ontario as if they’re small, quiet, predictable places. That mindset shapes budgets, timelines, priorities….everything!
So we get projects like GO Expansion inching along, re-scoped, delayed, and underpowered. We’re trying to run a 2025 megacity with the instincts of people who came of age in a completely different world. And until that mismatch changes (at City Hall and Queen’s Park) this is exactly the kind of infrastructure stagnation we’re going to keep seeing.