GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Bojaxs]

Why can’t freight be moved at night. Why can’t it be a freight line from midnight to 5 am

LSW essentially does this already, but that's because it's branch line for CN. They can send a train at night to go to the Ford plant and petroleum refinery in Mississauga at night to drop off and pick up rail cars.

It's not realistic to ask a rail operator to use a main line only at night. You're asking CP to time their trains coming in from Chicago/ U.S. to Toronto to only run along the Milton line at night. Which would have a domino effect on their trains across the rest of the network. You're basically asking them to redo their entire network's schedule across the entire country.

Not to mention CPKC's Intermodal Yard in Vaughan which would be receiving most of these trains (in regards to the Milton line) wouldn't be able to handle all these trains coming into the Yard at once within this 6 hour window. On top of them desperately trying to get their trains out of the yard before the 5am deadline.

IIRC, CN has some kind of agreement with GO where for roughly 2-3 hours in the morning and another 2-3 hour window in the evening, CN won't move any trains out of the Brampton Yard due to those hours being deemed "commuter hours".

 

[afransen]

Someone else had suggested Metrolinx just build their own 2 tracks in the corridor. If CP is amenable to that, it is just a matter of $$$ and is doable.

I really don't understand the reason why this would not be feasible. Seems like just a matter money for grade separations, some corridor widening, bridges. Maybe there would be need for a fly-over if the freight railway needs to switch sides. Good argument to switch Milton Line to EMUs so such a flyover is smaller/less costly. If there are (legitimate) concerns about catenary over the freight tracks at cross-overs, some small batteries in the EMUs could be used to bridge these segments, and is useful regardless in yards and potentially the Union Station corridor that may take a long time to be electrified.

 

[Bojaxs]

I really don't understand the reason why this would not be feasible. Seems like just a matter money for grade separations, some corridor widening, bridges. Maybe there would be need for a fly-over if the freight railway needs to switch sides. Good argument to switch Milton Line to EMUs so such a flyover is smaller/less costly. If there are (legitimate) concerns about catenary over the freight tracks at cross-overs, some small batteries in the EMUs could be used to bridge these segments, and is useful regardless in yards and potentially the Union Station corridor that may take a long time to be electrified.

CP owns all the land adjacent to the tracks. They want to hold on to this land incase at some point in the future they determine they need to increase train capacity in this portion of their network and need to lay down a third track.

If they do opt to sell this land to MX, they'll charge a sky high premium or every inch of land they sell to them. Probably to the point that MX has determined it not to be financially viable. Also consider that MX would have to design all the GO stations to accommodate freight trains running through, and like you pointed out, doing projects such as grade separations would require CP's blessings, and would require CP and GO to work together. You can't have a crossing where CP is at grade while the GO tracks right beside them are grade separated.

 

[afransen]

CP owns all the land adjacent to the tracks. They want to hold on to this land incase at some point in the future they determine they need to increase train capacity in this portion of their network and need to lay down a third track.

If they do opt to sell this land to MX, they'll charge a sky high premium or every inch of land they sell to them. Probably to the point that MX has determined it not to be financially viable. Also consider that MX would have to design all the GO stations to accommodate freight trains running through, and like you pointed out, doing projects such as grade separations would require CP's blessings, and would require CP and GO to work together. You can't have a crossing where CP is at grade while the GO tracks right beside them are grade separated.

Maybe some elevated guideway for the GO line at tight spots in the corridor? Or would it be prohibitive to build an elevated guideway that could withstand a train derailment hitting a support column?

I mean, we can hit the 'easy' button and build a $30 billion subway to Milton, but it seems like a bit of creativity should be able to get something done. The level of service on the Milton line is pretty dire for the demand, and the province's call for intensification of cities.

I'd also say that absent highway tolls, we need to consider dedicated bus lanes on the QEW/Gardiner to make GO bus transit times feasible. Maybe a secondary terminus (Exhibition station with eventual OL service) to avoid the congestion of getting to the Union Station bus terminal.

 

[dougtoronto]

is my memory failing me or didn't the Ontario government announce like a year or two ago that they'd be building separate tracks on the Milton line to make it more reliable and usable for passenger service?

 

[Bojaxs]

Maybe some elevated guideway for the GO line at tight spots in the corridor? Or would it be prohibitive to build an elevated guideway that could withstand a train derailment hitting a support column?

I mean, we can hit the 'easy' button and build a $30 billion subway to Milton, but it seems like a bit of creativity should be able to get something done. The level of service on the Milton line is pretty dire for the demand, and the province's call for intensification of cities.

I'd also say that absent highway tolls, we need to consider dedicated bus lanes on the QEW/Gardiner to make GO bus transit times feasible. Maybe a secondary terminus (Exhibition station with eventual OL service) to avoid the congestion of getting to the Union Station bus terminal.

I mean, if we're considering a subway to Milton, I've proposed the idea of running a CPKC freight bypass alongside the proposed 413 highway in order to take CPKC trains off the Milton line. Similar idea to running a freight bypass for CN alongside the 407 highway in order to take CN trains off the Kitchener line.

 

[north-of-anything]

is my memory failing me or didn't the Ontario government announce like a year or two ago that they'd be building separate tracks on the Milton line to make it more reliable and usable for passenger service?

Anything to win an election in the 905.

 

[Bordercollie]

I don't know how many trains run on the Galt sub today, but a few years ago it was around 7 or 8 - really long ones, to be sure, but once they were out of the way, they're out. If the number remains similar then I can't see how much of a constraint it really could be to have passenger trains running every 30-60 minutes on it.


That approach has its own set of complications - there aren't many locations along the corridor where there's room to add 2 more tracks without running afoul of the various industrial lots. The Humber River crossing would also need an entirely new bridge constructed. And I think there was also a discussion somewhere of how, if ML were compelled to build their own tracks, they would have to rebuild all the stations to sit on the south side of the corridor, though I'm not entirely sure as to why. Taking all of that into account, I'm not sure how doable it actually is.

The easiest solution would be to declare a provincial emergency, and evacuate Milton as a failed town.

So then build a new corridor and let the freight railway use it. Metrolinx can use the existing one.

 

[sixrings]

I just don’t understand. Buying this line isn’t ever going to get cheaper. It’s literally something only going up. In ten years when we revisit this we will be upset we didn’t buy at 2025 prices and then we will any to revisit it in 2045. And the circle will continue.

 

[T3G]

Another day, another 21 absolutely rammed to the gills.

Departure from Milton GO at 12:20 PM. All seats full by Derry and Armstrong, bus completely full by Derry and Trudeau.

The bus didn't even manage to leave Milton and it was already at capacity.

I fully expect a solution from Metrolinx within 12-18 business months, likely something half assed like the time in the spring of 2023 when they diverted all service to Oakville GO (a good thing), while completely forgetting that people might want to travel between Trafalgar and Meadowvale GO and leaving the 27 running to Milton during rush hours only (a bad thing).

Forget school work, that stuff will be an absolute cakewalk compared to dealing with the stupidity of everyone in charge of things in this province that God forgot.

 

[anb]

I think during the PM counter peak hours, the 21 stops at literally every Milton GO line station (except Dixie and Kipling), before hopping on the QEW at Hurontario. Who in their right mind thought this was a good idea at all, that demand all of a sudden drops during those times and running the 21A throughout wouldn't bring an audience?

At this point it would probably be more efficient to go to the 401/25 Park and Ride and take the 48 to Bramalea or the 29 to Kipling, or 48 to Meadowvale and then 27 to Yorkdale. The fact that these slightly out the way alternatives might be faster than taking 1 straight bus to Union during afternoon rush hour is really sad.

 

[ShonTron]

Another day, another 21 absolutely rammed to the gills.

Departure from Milton GO at 12:20 PM. All seats full by Derry and Armstrong, bus completely full by Derry and Trudeau.

The bus didn't even manage to leave Milton and it was already at capacity.

I fully expect a solution from Metrolinx within 12-18 business months, likely something half assed like the time in the spring of 2023 when they diverted all service to Oakville GO (a good thing), while completely forgetting that people might want to travel between Trafalgar and Meadowvale GO and leaving the 27 running to Milton during rush hours only (a bad thing).

Forget school work, that stuff will be an absolute cakewalk compared to dealing with the stupidity of everyone in charge of things in this province that God forgot.

The 27 should run at least hourly, seven days a week. There should also be a direct Milton-Bramalea-Hwy 407 route too.

 

[stevensontransit]

Another day, another 21 absolutely rammed to the gills.

Departure from Milton GO at 12:20 PM. All seats full by Derry and Armstrong, bus completely full by Derry and Trudeau.

The bus didn't even manage to leave Milton and it was already at capacity.

I fully expect a solution from Metrolinx within 12-18 business months, likely something half assed like the time in the spring of 2023 when they diverted all service to Oakville GO (a good thing), while completely forgetting that people might want to travel between Trafalgar and Meadowvale GO and leaving the 27 running to Milton during rush hours only (a bad thing).

Forget school work, that stuff will be an absolute cakewalk compared to dealing with the stupidity of everyone in charge of things in this province that God forgot.

Sadly Metrolinx hasn’t woken up to this. I also reported that yesterdays crowding to GO transit on that and demand them to boost service.

 

[T3G]

Sadly Metrolinx hasn’t woken up to this. I also reported that yesterdays crowding to GO transit on that and demand them to boost service.

I did as well, and just got the standard response that they passed on my comments to the service planning department.

I am not hopeful anything will be done anytime soon, even though leaving scores of people behind on a daily basis constitutes a fairly severe transportation emergency.

Maybe we should go to the media. Journalists making a stink about something is usually more effective than the common sense channels of complaining to the transportation provider, or, heaven forfend, elected "representatives".

 

[dowlingm]

I just don’t understand. Buying this line isn’t ever going to get cheaper. It’s literally something only going up. In ten years when we revisit this we will be upset we didn’t buy at 2025 prices and then we will any to revisit it in 2045. And the circle will continue.

It’s almost like there might be very good reasons that hasn’t yet happened, and which have been debated here every few months at length.