VIA Rail

[ARG1]

What else would you expect in a city where the LRT station built to serve the rail station is called „Tremblay“. VIA has always been an afterthought…

This feels unwarranted. Back when it was a Transitway station it was called "Train" Station, prominently highlighting the fact that it was the VIA station. They had to rename it to something because having a station called "Train Station" on a rail line would be weird. Sure you could call it "Ottawa VIA Rail" station, but that's frankly a mouthful. Simply naming it after the nearby street, and highlighting the connection to VIA on both maps and on-train announcements is plenty reasonable.

Its not like they're hiding it by any means

 

[Urban Sky]

This feels unwarranted. Back when it was a Transitway station it was called "Train" Station, prominently highlighting the fact that it was the VIA station. They had to rename it to something because having a station called "Train Station" on a rail line would be weird.

Transit stops are not train stations. There are currently only two train stations in Ottawa: Ottawa and Fallowfield.

Sure you could call it "Ottawa VIA Rail" station, but that's frankly a mouthful.

„Train Station“ or „Rail Station“ would have been fine. Virtually every other city on this planet manages to name transit stops in a way that they clearly indicate the immediate proximity of rail stations.

Simply naming it after the nearby street, and highlighting the connection to VIA on both maps and on-train announcements is plenty reasonable.

Its not like they're hiding it by any means

View attachment 590497

Have a look at OC Transpo‘s actual transit map to check how „prominently“ they highlight the rail station:

https://www.octranspo.com/images/files/maps/systemmap.pdf

The above also highlights how the rail station is not served by any other transit services (not even a single bus line!) than the Confederation Line. Again, a sign of neglect and ignorance you will struggle to find in any other major or capital city on this planet…

 

[dowlingm]

Transit stops are not train stations. There are currently only two train stations in Ottawa: Ottawa and Fallowfield.

„Train Station“ or „Rail Station“ would have been fine. Virtually every other city on this planet manages to name transit stops in a way that they clearly indicate the immediate proximity of rail stations.

Have a look at OC Transpo‘s actual transit map to check how „prominently“ they highlight the rail station:
View attachment 590625View attachment 590584

https://www.octranspo.com/images/files/maps/systemmap.pdf

The above also highlights how the rail station is not served by any other transit services (not even a single bus line!) than the Confederation Line. Again, a sign of neglect and ignorance you will struggle to find in any other major or capital city on this planet…

Taxi services probably like that. Same as how there is no direct public transit service other than a hotel shuttle to Toronto City Centre Airport.

 

[DSCToronto]

Taxi services probably like that. Same as how there is no direct public transit service other than a hotel shuttle to Toronto City Centre Airport.

Though having a TTC stop right at the terminal would obviously be better, the TTC streetcar on Queens' Quay/Bathurst is within about 150 metres of the airport. That said, I do not think there is actually any signage at the terminal telling tourists about this option!

 

[DirectionNorth]

Have a look at OC Transpo‘s actual transit map to check how „prominently“ they highlight the rail station:
View attachment 590625View attachment 590584

https://www.octranspo.com/images/files/maps/systemmap.pdf

The above also highlights how the rail station is not served by any other transit services (not even a single bus line!) than the Confederation Line. Again, a sign of neglect and ignorance you will struggle to find in any other major or capital city on this planet…

This betrays a deep unfamiliarity with Ottawa's urban form - Tremblay was, before COVID, the second least busy station on OLRT, the city's main E-W transit spine. From where, exactly, do you want this bus route to run? The nearby bus hubs which already have rapid transit service to the train station? Montréal?

The station is located in an urban wasteland (though this is partially bad planning from the City of Ottawa) - this is a rail station that only serves the intercity station. "Neglect and ignorance" - the partisanship here is your own.

 

[micheal_can]

This betrays a deep unfamiliarity with Ottawa's urban form - Tremblay was, before COVID, the second least busy station on OLRT, the city's main E-W transit spine. From where, exactly, do you want this bus route to run? The nearby bus hubs which already have rapid transit service to the train station? Montréal?

The station is located in an urban wasteland (though this is partially bad planning from the City of Ottawa) - this is a rail station that only serves the intercity station. "Neglect and ignorance" - the partisanship here is your own.

It begs the question: Should Via and Ottawa look at building a new inner city station once HxR is up and running? Would the very high cost be worth it?

 

[reaperexpress]

Transit stops are not train stations. There are currently only two train stations in Ottawa: Ottawa and Fallowfield.

You are seriously suggesting that O-Train stations are not train stations?

„Train Station“ or „Rail Station“ would have been fine. Virtually every other city on this planet manages to name transit stops in a way that they clearly indicate the immediate proximity of rail stations.

No, hardly any other cities name a metro/tram station just "Train station" or "rail station". They typically use the name of the station like "Central station", "Penn Station", etc. The Via station didn't historically have a commonly-known name (since it was indeed the only train station at the time), but Tremblay would be a perfectly good one for Via to adopt if they actually cared about this wayfinding issue.

Have a look at OC Transpo‘s actual transit map to check how „prominently“ they highlight the rail station:
View attachment 590625View attachment 590584

https://www.octranspo.com/images/files/maps/systemmap.pdf

The above also highlights how the rail station is not served by any other transit services (not even a single bus line!) than the Confederation Line. Again, a sign of neglect and ignorance you will struggle to find in any other major or capital city on this planet…

OC Transpo definitely should do more to improve access to the VIA station from the north and south, since the LRT doesn't really help. I speak from experience, having twice missed the OC Transpo bus to St Laurent due to it coming 5+ min early on a route that runs every 30, and consequently having to drag my suitcase 40 minutes by foot to the station to avoid missing the train. But claiming that they do nothing to serve Via undermines the validity of your argument considering that they run metro trains to the station every 5 minutes and they spent millions of dollars to relocate the station to allow passengers to connect to Via without crossing the busy drop-off roadways.

 

[Urban Sky]

This betrays a deep unfamiliarity with Ottawa's urban form - Tremblay was, before COVID, the second least busy station on OLRT, the city's main E-W transit spine.

Last time I checked, Ottawa Rail Station was located at the intersection of two of the cuty‘s busiest roadways, the Highway 417 and the Vanier Parkway. If you treat intermodality with the intercity rail station as an afterthought, then naturally ridership will remain well below its potential.

From where, exactly, do you want this bus route to run? The nearby bus hubs which already have rapid transit service to the train station? Montréal?

Located right next to a major exit of Highway 417 and only a 5-10 minute LRT ride from downtown, this would have been a prime location for an intercity bus station. Instead, the LRT station was built in a way which made the continuation of such intercity bus services untanable.

The station is located in an urban wasteland (though this is partially bad planning from the City of Ottawa) - this is a rail station that only serves the intercity station.

I guess that must be why it‘s called „Tremblay“ and situated on the transit map next to two tiny third-order dots labelled „VIA Rail“ and „Park RCGT Parc“.

"Neglect and ignorance" - the partisanship here is your own.

You may be right that from an Ottawa resident‘s perspective, calling the LRT station serving the rail station after the road it is located rather than the station itself and not trying to integrate it into any other transit networks might make sense, but from the perspective of international tourists, this is an extremely odd decision which you‘ll struggle to find anywhere else on this planet in cities of similar size or importance…

 

[lrt's friend]

The naming of LRT stations in Ottawa is highly political. It gets so bizarre that there are arguments whether a name is English or French, there are slight variations of indigenous names, names are adopted that relate to a place a considerable distance from the station and station names used for years suddenly change leaving residents scratching their heads, 'Why?' . The possibility of a station named 'VIA Rail' is too complicated for Ottawa planners and assumes that Ottawa residents are too stupid to distinguish LRT from intercity rail. I hate how so many station names do not tie in with the most important destination next to a station, which may or may not be a street names or we create a completely new name for political reasons.

 

[micheal_can]

You are seriously suggesting that O-Train stations are not train stations?

No, hardly any other cities name a metro/tram station just "Train station" or "rail station". They typically use the name of the station like "Central station", "Penn Station", etc. The Via station didn't historically have a commonly-known name (since it was indeed the only train station at the time), but Tremblay would be a perfectly good one for Via to adopt if they actually cared about this wayfinding issue.

OC Transpo definitely should do more to improve access to the VIA station from the north and south, since the LRT doesn't really help. I speak from experience, having twice missed the OC Transpo bus to St Laurent due to it coming 5+ min early on a route that runs every 30, and consequently having to drag my suitcase 40 minutes by foot to the station to avoid missing the train. But claiming that they do nothing to serve Via undermines the validity of your argument considering that they run metro trains to the station every 5 minutes and they spent millions of dollars to relocate the station to allow passengers to connect to Via without crossing the busy drop-off roadways.

I heard talk of some sort of covered pedestrian tunnel or walkway to connect the 2 stations, but it was not in the initial budget for Tremblay's construction. Anyone know if this is true?

 

[Admiral Beez]

If you could own a home or year round cottage and live nearby any of VIA’s regular stations (as opposed to flag/whistle stops) and valued the ability to use the train (instead of flying or driving) at least a few times a month to reach an urban area (for appointments, RTO, etc.) where would you choose?

While southwestern Ontario hold little interest to me, any of the stations from Port Hope to Gananoque and Smiths Falls would. Outside of Ontario, I’d maybe consider Miramichi.

 

[Urban Sky]

If you could own a home or year round cottage and live nearby any of VIA’s regular stations (as opposed to flag/whistle stops) and valued the ability to use the train (instead of flying or driving) at least a few times a month to reach an urban area (for appointments, RTO, etc.) where would you choose?

I would nominate Napanee, which is incredibly idyllic at the river and the waterfall (which you can see when passing over the bridge right above the waterfall and should be well within walking distance from the rail station). Unfortunately, none of the Montreal-Toronto trains stops there, so I‘d probably have to wait until HFR is built and most Lakeshore services are converted to milk runs…

 

[Urban Sky]

You are seriously suggesting that O-Train stations are not train stations?

Maybe the term „train station“ is ambiguous, but I would argue that „rail station“ is the generally accepted term to cover intercity and suburban rail stations without including stations which only serve urban rail services such as Metro, LRT or Streetcar.

May I ask you how many „rail stations“ Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Amsterdam or Frankfurt have according to your personal definition? If someone asks you in downtown Toronto where the „rail station“ is, do you point them towards the nearest streetcar stop or Union Station?

No, hardly any other cities name a metro/tram station just "Train station" or "rail station".

Correct, and Ottawa seems to be a very notable and extraordinary exception.

They typically use the name of the station like "Central station", "Penn Station", etc.

Correct, if a station has a particular name, the transit station will adopt it and where it doesn’t (like in Ottawa) it wouldn‘t and just generically refer to it as something like „rail station“.

The Via station didn't historically have a commonly-known name (since it was indeed the only train station at the time),

Correct, Ottawa‘s VIA Rail station does not have an alternative name and it doesn’t need one, because it clearly is the highest-order station serving the city.

but Tremblay would be a perfectly good one for Via to adopt if they actually cared about this wayfinding issue.

Incorrect, given that there is only one rail station named after the city, there is no need to designate a name to that station. My favorite example is Leeds (where I did my undergrad), which has 15 rail stations within the city proper, but only one station called „Leeds“, which is served by bus stops called „Station“ without causing any confusion woth the other 14 rail stations in the city or the bus station (which is called, well, „Bus Station“):

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OC Transpo definitely should do more to improve access to the VIA station from the north and south, since the LRT doesn't really help. I speak from experience, having twice missed the OC Transpo bus to St Laurent due to it coming 5+ min early on a route that runs every 30, and consequently having to drag my suitcase 40 minutes by foot to the station to avoid missing the train.

Fully agreed.

But claiming that they do nothing to serve Via undermines the validity of your argument considering that they run metro trains to the station every 5 minutes and they spent millions of dollars to relocate the station to allow passengers to connect to Via without crossing the busy drop-off roadways.

I‘m not saying that the City of Ottawa (including, but not limited to: OC Transpo) do nothing to serve the VIA station, but I do maintain that they treat intermodality with intercity passengers at the city‘s second-busiest intercity passenger facility (assuming that only YOW airport is busier, since there is no longer a centralized intercity bus station) as an afterthought.

As @lrt's friend has alluded to, LRT station naming is motivated by many things, but not logic, international conventions or any regards for tourists unfamiliar with the city. For a capital city of a major country, this is a rather pathetic attitude…

 

[micheal_can]

I think my location is a great example.... If someone said they are going to the train station in Sudbury, I would ask which one or what they were catching. There are 3 within the city proper, of which 2 serve the same route, and the 3rd is inaccessible from the other 2.

In a place like Toronto, They would not say train station as there are countless stations that are train stations

I have friends and family who live in the Ottawa area,and if they say the train station, they mean the main Via station in the city. Due to their disdain of the LRT, if I meant one of those stations, they would correct me with LRT station. However, they may not know which LRT station is the main Via station.

 

[DirectionNorth]

Last time I checked, Ottawa Rail Station was located at the intersection of two of the cuty‘s busiest roadways, the Highway 417 and the Vanier Parkway. If you treat intermodality with the intercity rail station as an afterthought, then naturally ridership will remain well below its potential.

Located right next to a major exit of Highway 417 and only a 5-10 minute LRT ride from downtown, this would have been a prime location for an intercity bus station. Instead, the LRT station was built in a way which made the continuation of such intercity bus services untanable.

I guess that must be why it‘s called „Tremblay“ and situated on the transit map next to two tiny third-order dots labelled „VIA Rail“ and „Park RCGT Parc“.

You may be right that from an Ottawa resident‘s perspective, calling the LRT station serving the rail station after the road it is located rather than the station itself and not trying to integrate it into any other transit networks might make sense, but from the perspective of international tourists, this is an extremely odd decision which you‘ll struggle to find anywhere else on this planet in cities of similar size or importance…

The Central Bus Terminal was closed and demolished well after OLRT was planned and built.

As for intercity bus, this is about the worst possible location for one, even if we consider the "intermodality." With optimal design, how many people are transferring between the bus and train network, even after HxR implementation? Would you see Dorval as the best place for "intermodality" for Montréal? Perhaps we could have all intercity buses run to Oshawa, or Downsview, or Mimico. Think of the intermodality we could have!

Ottawa made the decision to close their downtown terminal in the 1960s. Unless someone reopens it for the cost of billions, intermodal intercity transfers will never be the ideal in Ottawa.

Maybe the term „train station“ is ambiguous, but I would argue that „rail station“ is the generally accepted term to cover intercity and suburban rail stations without including stations which only serve urban rail services such as Metro, LRT or Streetcar.

May I ask you how many „rail stations“ Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Amsterdam or Frankfurt have according to your personal definition? If someone asks you in downtown Toronto where the „rail station“ is, do you point them towards the nearest streetcar stop or Union Station?

Correct, and Ottawa seems to be a very notable and extraordinary exception.

Correct, if a station has a particular name, the transit station will adopt it and where it doesn’t (like in Ottawa) it wouldn‘t and just generically refer to it as something like „rail station“.

Correct, Ottawa‘s VIA Rail station does not have an alternative name and it doesn’t need one, because it clearly is the highest-order station serving the city.

Incorrect, given that there is only one rail station named after the city, there is no need to designate a name to that station. My favorite example is Leeds (where I did my undergrad), which has 15 rail stations within the city proper, but only one station called „Leeds“, which is served by bus stops called „Station“ without causing any confusion woth the other 14 rail stations in the city or the bus station (which is called, well, „Bus Station“):

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View attachment 590882View attachment 590885

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Fully agreed.

I‘m not saying that the City of Ottawa (including, but not limited to: OC Transpo) do nothing to serve the VIA station, but I do maintain that they treat intermodality with intercity passengers at the city‘s second-busiest intercity passenger facility (assuming that only YOW airport is busier, since there is no longer a centralized intercity bus station) as an afterthought.

As @lrt's friend has alluded to, LRT station naming is motivated by many things, but not logic, international conventions or any regards for tourists unfamiliar with the city. For a capital city of a major country, this is a rather pathetic attitude…

You might be surprised at how many people use, or even know of, VIA in the general public ...

I have never heard of a station named "rail station" on a rail transit line. "Ottawa Station," I could see the point, but that's not your argument.

That the station was renamed, after 30+ years of operation as "Train," suggesting that perhaps the City of Ottawa doesn't have a vendetta against VIA, doesn't matter.