Richmond Hill Yonge Line 1 North Subway Extension | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

Rainforest said:
Metrolinx owns the tracks between Union and the Doncaster Diamond. North of the diamond and through Richmond Hill Centre, it is a CN freight mainline. CN will never let it be replaced, we can only talk about adding transit tracks in the same corridor.

A number of ideas have been floated re. dealing with the track south of Richmond Hill. We definitely don't want it abandoned, but it might be straightened and twinned all the way for a more frequent operation and higher capacity.
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I always thought the best idea for improving the Richmond Hill line was to eventually shift the service onto the CP mainline down by Eglinton/Don Mills via a reactivated Leaside spur (If that's its name) and use the Don branch to get back on the RH right-of-way. Measuring on google maps, this shaves off about 2.5km of travel and is a faster and more reliable route, but is somewhat a pipe dream. Reactivating Leaside is likely a non-starter, even if we 'trade' it with the corresponding section of the Bala sub. Gaining access to the CP mainline is only marginally more likely. While it does not necessarily predicate on full GO ownership of the line, we have better fish to fry than negotiating with CP. for running hourly trains. The good news is that all these works are in a relatively small area, and the track is perfectly fine once it crosses Don Mills heading north. The idea of it becoming an OL branch is worth investigating, but it must be a branch; this is not an ideal alignment for the Ontario Line North in the slightest.

Unfortunately, I think the people funnelled into RHC are going to always choose Line 1. GO's marginal utility here is fairly weak, and the line is better for serving northern Richmond Hill and eastern North York anyway. I don't doubt that the line can become very appealing, but it needs significant travel time improvements to get there. York Region should really have gunned for significant RH Line improvements first to better benefit the region, but I understand why Line 1 is preferred in a vacuum. Overall between Yonge North and the Ontario Line (plus its northern extension) I just don't see a case to fix the Richmond Hill line in the near term if it is going to cost anything more than pennies. Metrolinx likely feels the same way.
 
sunnyside said:
I always thought the best idea for improving the Richmond Hill line was to eventually shift the service onto the CP mainline down by Eglinton/Don Mills via a reactivated Leaside spur (If that's its name) and use the Don branch to get back on the RH right-of-way. Measuring on google maps, this shaves off about 2.5km of travel and is a faster and more reliable route, but is somewhat a pipe dream. Reactivating Leaside is likely a non-starter, even if we 'trade' it with the corresponding section of the Bala sub. Gaining access to the CP mainline is only marginally more likely. While it does not necessarily predicate on full GO ownership of the line, we have better fish to fry than negotiating with CP. for running hourly trains. The good news is that all these works are in a relatively small area, and the track is perfectly fine once it crosses Don Mills heading north. The idea of it becoming an OL branch is worth investigating, but it must be a branch; this is not an ideal alignment for the Ontario Line North in the slightest.

Unfortunately, I think the people funnelled into RHC are going to always choose Line 1. GO's marginal utility here is fairly weak, and the line is better for serving northern Richmond Hill and eastern North York anyway. I don't doubt that the line can become very appealing, but it needs significant travel time improvements to get there. York Region should really have gunned for significant RH Line improvements first to better benefit the region, but I understand why Line 1 is preferred in a vacuum. Overall between Yonge North and the Ontario Line (plus its northern extension) I just don't see a case to fix the Richmond Hill line in the near term if it is going to cost anything more than pennies. Metrolinx likely feels the same way.
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Most of the bridges over roads are already 2 track ready south of Steeles. There are some ravine bridges that would need to be installed to make it continuously double track.

They are removing one of the crossings in the ravine area.

North of Eglinton the line is pretty straight and it could be faster if it didn't have to cross the diamond at Doncaster.

If it ran more often more people would take it.
 
From today's Metrolinx York Region Newsletter.

Screenshot_2022-10-31_174819.jpg
 
sunnyside said:
I always thought the best idea for improving the Richmond Hill line was to eventually shift the service onto the CP mainline down by Eglinton/Don Mills via a reactivated Leaside spur (If that's its name) and use the Don branch to get back on the RH right-of-way. Measuring on google maps, this shaves off about 2.5km of travel and is a faster and more reliable route, but is somewhat a pipe dream. Reactivating Leaside is likely a non-starter, even if we 'trade' it with the corresponding section of the Bala sub. Gaining access to the CP mainline is only marginally more likely. While it does not necessarily predicate on full GO ownership of the line, we have better fish to fry than negotiating with CP. for running hourly trains. The good news is that all these works are in a relatively small area, and the track is perfectly fine once it crosses Don Mills heading north. The idea of it becoming an OL branch is worth investigating, but it must be a branch; this is not an ideal alignment for the Ontario Line North in the slightest.

Unfortunately, I think the people funnelled into RHC are going to always choose Line 1. GO's marginal utility here is fairly weak, and the line is better for serving northern Richmond Hill and eastern North York anyway. I don't doubt that the line can become very appealing, but it needs significant travel time improvements to get there. York Region should really have gunned for significant RH Line improvements first to better benefit the region, but I understand why Line 1 is preferred in a vacuum. Overall between Yonge North and the Ontario Line (plus its northern extension) I just don't see a case to fix the Richmond Hill line in the near term if it is going to cost anything more than pennies. Metrolinx likely feels the same way.
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There is a siding near Pottery Rd, south of Oriole, which should be enough for hourly trains.

The problem is North of Langstaff, where they don't own the corridor and is CN's mainline. If they could build a station south of Langstaff and terminate trains there they could run more services. The issue is that if you can't transfer at Richmond Hill Centre, it defeats the purpose, unless you build a bridge and a walkway.
 
Bordercollie said:
There is a siding near Pottery Rd, south of Oriole, which should be enough for hourly trains.

The problem is North of Langstaff, where they don't own the corridor and is CN's mainline. If they could build a station south of Langstaff and terminate trains there they could run more services. The issue is that if you can't transfer at Richmond Hill Centre, it defeats the purpose, unless you build a bridge and a walkway.
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It will only work if ML activates all day service on this line instead of 4 trips a direction per day commuter service. Obviously the word "subway" caused voters and stakeholders to salivate but at least line 1 is guaranteed to provide all day service. All day service isn't even in the ML long term plans for this line
 
cplchanb said:
It will only work if ML activates all day service on this line instead of 4 trips a direction per day commuter service. Obviously the word "subway" caused voters and stakeholders to salivate but at least line 1 is guaranteed to provide all day service. All day service isn't even in the ML long term plans for this line
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If I could park my car at the station and it ran every half an hour it's more civilized than the subway. Although it's not as bad as line 2.
 
cplchanb said:
All day service isn't even in the ML long term plans for this line
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This is not even remotely true.

Prior to COVID, there was likely to be mid-day and weekend train service from Union to Old Cummer starting in April of 2020. GO still has this in their plans for once they get the train crew situation stabilized.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
This is not even remotely true.

Prior to COVID, there was likely to be mid-day and weekend train service from Union to Old Cummer starting in April of 2020. GO still has this in their plans for once they get the train crew situation stabilized.

Dan
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How about langstaff where this whole discussion is based around?
 
smallspy said:
This is not even remotely true.

Prior to COVID, there was likely to be mid-day and weekend train service from Union to Old Cummer starting in April of 2020. GO still has this in their plans for once they get the train crew situation stabilized.

Dan
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To Old Cummer? But why?

It makes so little sense without fare integration and convenient TTC connections (which neither Old Cummer or Oriole have).
 
ShonTron said:
To Old Cummer? But why?

It makes so little sense without fare integration and convenient TTC connections (which neither Old Cummer or Oriole have).
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Because they own the corridor and because it provides an alternative to the subway.

Think about it, living at Don Mills and Finch, you have to either take the bus to Finch station and then 35min to Union. OR 30min from old Cummer.

You need to remember about 70% of GO users prefer to take the train rather than drive. They CHOOSE to take the train even though they can drive.

Have you seen the DVP during anytime of the day? It's rush hour all day from 6am to midnight, post COVID. This would allow people to park at the parking lot and take the train downtown.

Reasons as to why they never built a station to be able to transfer from line 5 is something I never understood.

What they really need is weekend service on that line. The DVP is a parking lot the whole weekend.
 
cplchanb said:
How about langstaff where this whole discussion is based around?
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You said that Metrolinx had no plans for service on this line. I'm simply pointing out that they do.

ShonTron said:
To Old Cummer? But why?

It makes so little sense without fare integration and convenient TTC connections (which neither Old Cummer or Oriole have).
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Two reasons: One, Old Cummer is as far as they can get on their own track and not interfere with CN's operations.

Two: the actual point of this service (as envisioned) is to try and avoid having buses from the north and east come down the DVP. They would likely connect at Oriole, with some of the buses that currently take the 407 trekking down Leslie to Old Cummer.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
You said that Metrolinx had no plans for service on this line. I'm simply pointing out that they do.



Two reasons: One, Old Cummer is as far as they can get on their own track and not interfere with CN's operations.

Two: the actual point of this service (as envisioned) is to try and avoid having buses from the north and east come down the DVP. They would likely connect at Oriole, with some of the buses that currently take the 407 trekking down Leslie to Old Cummer.

Dan
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There's hardly any buses coming down the dvp anyways. The most I've seen are 1 or 2 go buses during the rushes so it's a non factor really.

Old cummer not to mention is in the middle of nowhere. You're basically going to transfer all the congestion from 404 directly to finch and Leslie IF there's going to be ridership due to the above concern.

Langstaff at least is bordering 407, hwy 7 and yonge which makes it a central location. The need to buy the corridor up to this point if it were to make any sense.
 
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