Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[felix123]

If this is true, it definitely doesn't cover Ontario, where it feels like the only criteria that exists for having a license is being alive.

Ontario has a very similar system with heavy restrictions during the licensing process, but what we lack compared to Québec is the requirement to take a theory course before being allowed to write the learner's test.
My guess is that our traffic safety issues are exacerbated from lack of enforcement. Some jurisdictions such as the UK are also less lenient about reciprocal licensing than Ontario is. (You're less likely to need to retake a driving test here than in the UK if you got your licence elsewhere. Even US drivers licences are non-exchangeable there.)

 

[T3G]

Have any of you driven in the GTA recently? The skill level of drivers is certainly not getting any better. Constantly hogging both lanes driving at the same speed preventing people from passing holding up traffic.

Not moving forward into the intersection when making a left turn.

Blocking lanes of traffic even though there is a left turn lane.

Blocking people from changing lanes by accelerating into their blind spot.

Not turning on an advanced green.

Blocking the bus lane or bike lane on purpose

I can keep going. This is why we need better transit.

I'm aware of all of this. That is the exact premise of my post.

Ontario has a very similar system with heavy restrictions during the licensing process, but what we lack compared to Québec is the requirement to take a theory course before being allowed to write the learner's test.
My guess is that our traffic safety issues are exacerbated from lack of enforcement. Some jurisdictions such as the UK are also less lenient about reciprocal licensing than Ontario is. (You're less likely to need to retake a driving test here than in the UK if you got your licence elsewhere. Even US drivers licences are non-exchangeable there.)

I have trouble reconciling this with what I see on the roads every day. If there are so many heavy restrictions, why are there so many reckless and stupid people with driver's licenses? Surely it can't be just the threat of a fine or jail time that causes people to behave in other jurisdictions?

 

[picard102]

Ontario has a very similar system with heavy restrictions during the licensing process, but what we lack compared to Québec is the requirement to take a theory course before being allowed to write the learner's test.

Doesn't Ontario offer an incentive to take a course? I recall taking drivers ed to shorten the amount of time I spent between stages.

 

[felix123]

I have trouble reconciling this with what I see on the roads every day. If there are so many heavy restrictions, why are there so many reckless and stupid people with driver's licenses? Surely it can't be just the threat of a fine or jail time that causes people to behave in other jurisdictions?

I fully agree that infractions occur constantly across the GTA, and a lot of selfish behaviour is on display. But I also believe that enforcement is the key differentiator.
In Australia, fines are so high and enforcement so widespread, with speed and red light cameras plentiful throughout the country, in my experience living there for a few years people just drive at the speed limit to avoid i.e. a $1100 fine + demerits for going 30km/h over the speed limit.

 

[felix123]

Doesn't Ontario offer an incentive to take a course? I recall taking drivers ed to shorten the amount of time I spent between stages.

Yes, the incentive (but not requirement) to taking an accredited driving course offered in Ontario reduces the waiting period from 1 year down to 8 months before being allowed to take your first road test.

Québec does not incentivize this, as they simply don't allow you to write your learner's test until you pass a theory course, which is 12x2 hour lessons.
Then you need to take 15x1 hour driving lessons and wait a year before you can do your road test.

 

[turbanplanner]

West of Keele Street, it USED to be 60 km/h. Went to 40 km/h during construction. The roadway in Etobicoke is DESIGNED for the "safety" of speeders doing 100+km/h, thinking that a sign with 60, 50, or 40 km/h will be obeyed.

Scarlett Road north of the Humber River to Dixon Road used to be 60 km/h. Dixon Road from Scarlett Road to Highway 27 used to be 60 km/h. Both were DESIGNED for the "safety" of speeders doing more than 100km/h. So they put up 50 km/h signs, thinking that would make those roads "safer" for pedestrians.

I get areas with houses and schools should have slow speed limits? but with a grade separated bike lane what is the purpose of stupidly slow limits?

What did we gain by significantly lowering speed limits on trunk streets?

 

[Undead]

wait a year before you can do your road test.

What's the point of that? To forget everything one has learned?

 

[felix123]

What's the point of that? To forget everything one has learned?

It's 12 months from completing the learner's test. That is the time when you would be doing your 15 lessons and practicing with the restrictions of a learner's licence. In Ontario it's also 12 months, but reduced to 8 if you take a driving course.

Anyways, maybe the MTO can add a section about streetcars and LRT vehicles, but I still think it comes down to needing better enforcement.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Insurance discounts also apply to drivers who have training completed. I believe that while it's not mandatory, uptake on drivers ed courses is very high as a result. Even ignoring the time savings on being able to get your G2, the courses usually pay for themselves in insurance savings after a few years.

I recall my drivers training providing direction regarding streetcars, particularly how you have to wait if the doors are open.

 

[evandyk]

What did we gain by significantly lowering speed limits on trunk streets?

Those are the kind of streets where most pedestrian deaths occur, so anything probably helps.

 

[evandyk]

And those streets you posted photos of have limits of 60, so they are not exactly slow!

 

[ARG1]

If this is true, it definitely doesn't cover Ontario, where it feels like the only criteria that exists for having a license is being alive.

Yes and no. The problem with licensing in Ontario is that how easy it is to get your licence and pass the test differs from testing location to testing location. Oshawa and Guelph? Absolute cakewalks. Newmarket? I can tell you horror stories about all of the stupid ways people were failed in that location. The pattern I noticed is that how easy or hard a specific DriveTest is depends on how rich the neighbourhood around it is. Generally if the clients served by a DriveTest are middle/upper middle class, they are more likely to be punishing because they know that the students are more likely to have enough money to pay up for more exams. As such, it's not uncommon for people in York Region to drive out to places like Oshawa and Guelph just so they can get an easier exam.

 

[turbanplanner]

And those streets you posted photos of have limits of 60, so they are not exactly slow!

Highway 7 used to be 80. There isn't even a sidewalk across highway 7 so it seems idiotic. Same with some sections of highway 27 up north that went from 80 to 60.

And eglinton has totally grade separated pedestrian and bike trails. I get lowing the limits in areas with actual pedestrians like warden etc (have you driven on those streets above?)
But these changes for literally no reason, with ZERO adjustment to the light timing just eats at good will.

 

[Natika33]

It's 12 months from completing the learner's test. That is the time when you would be doing your 15 lessons and practicing with the restrictions of a learner's licence. In Ontario it's also 12 months, but reduced to 8 if you take a driving course.

Anyways, maybe the MTO can add a section about streetcars and LRT vehicles, but I still think it comes down to needing better enforcement.

Enforcement, but I'd also like to see a system like they have in Japan where everyone has to watch a video about driving safely and rules every time one renews one's license (so once every 5 years or so after your first renewal which is after 1 year I think). This would also help those who got their license in a small town and never had to deal with all the different conditions of big cities. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if they added a quiz one had to pass every 5 years too.

 

[Undead]

Those are the kind of streets where most pedestrian deaths occur, so anything probably helps.

Don't most pedestrian deaths occur at intersections, as opposed to the high speed midblock sections?

Newmarket? I can tell you horror stories about all of the stupid ways people were failed in that location.

In my time, Newmarket was known as one of the easiest locations. I heard Downsview was tougher.