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Problematic Park Design - Why Some Parks Don't Work

I'll occasionally visit friends in the Fairview Mall area and we'll spend time at Godstone Park. I always thought that park could use more tree cover and programming given its massive size (6 acres IIRC). Granted, that space is split between the middle school and City territory. Would love to hear your take.
 
If you don't mind, I'd be curious to see your thoughts on Barbara Hall Park. Mostly cus it's (A) one of my local parks, and (B) The way it wraps around the 519, and tries to fit a lot of uses in that space, is interesting to me in terms of what went well and what went poorly.
We actually met them at the new(ish) Canoe Landing playground on the weekend. Would be interested in your views on that, since a bunch of stuff just felt off to me.

Though the ice cream from Scoop'd was pretty good. Every park should have ice cream next door.
I'll occasionally visit friends in the Fairview Mall area and we'll spend time at Godstone Park. I always thought that park could use more tree cover and programming given its massive size (6 acres IIRC). Granted, that space is split between the middle school and City territory. Would love to hear your take.

I will happily take at a look at all of these.

Though for @Undead ' s request, that's a bit out of the way...so it may be a bit longer.

@TossYourJacket I did the photos for your park today, and my take will probably be up sometime tomorrow. I'm still uploading photos from Saturday's walk; and I just did another 1/2 dozen sites today while filling your request; and at some point tomorrow, I'm going have to earn some money, LOL
 
I will happily take at a look at all of these.

Though for @Undead ' s request, that's a bit out of the way...so it may be a bit longer.

@TossYourJacket I did the photos for your park today, and my take will probably be up sometime tomorrow. I'm still uploading photos from Saturday's walk; and I just did another 1/2 dozen sites today while filling your request; and at some point tomorrow, I'm going have to earn some money, LOL

I would be curious to what your thoughts are on Sherbourne Common (specifically the North section)
 
I would be curious to what your thoughts are on Sherbourne Common (specifically the North section)

One of the very first reviews I did! It can be found at post #7, here:

 
One of the very first reviews I did! It can be found at post #7, here:


Wow, I didnt go that far back, thank you!

Few other suggestions then (I love reading these, they are amazing)

Jessie Ketchum Park
Harbour Square Park
St James Park (they just renovated it)
 
Wow, I didnt go that far back, thank you!

Few other suggestions then (I love reading these, they are amazing)

Jessie Ketchum Park
Harbour Square Park
St James Park (they just renovated it)

Those first two I haven't reviewed yet.........(but since you asked, I will)

But the last one, I have, at post #19. Preview, I really like that one! The link to that review is here:

 
Ok, let's have a look at Barbara Hall Park for @TossYourJacket

Lets start with an aerial photo and a run down of what the program is for the space. (first without labels)

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Now with labels for key features:

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The total site area is 0.6 hectares or 1.5 acres

As noted the site contains 3 clear feature areas, one aimed at children w/some play equipment for the younger set (toddler age); and a waterplay;
another for dog owners in the form of an off-leash area, and finally the memorial those who died of AIDS.

The remaining space is largely planting beds, seating and a small open lawn.

So, now the questions arise; is the space successful in its current form?

Is it over-programmed?

How is the physical infra, and the planting material holding up?

So let's look at these photos I took yesterday, Sunday May 29, mid-afternoon, on a beautiful day.

DSC07836.JPG


Looking first at the larger, more northerly entrance and seating area, this area seems reasonably successful. It was relatively busy, there was a small community event of some kind, most of trees are relatively healthy
only a couple showing some strain, the paving was in good condition, as were the benches........seems decent.

Now lets move over and check out the second, smaller, more southerly entrance:

DSC07838.JPG


The initial look suggests a similar state to the more northerly entrance, but due to being smaller, if nothing else, considerably less busy. It does, however, get very dark and very closed-in, very quickly as you enter the space:

DSC07839.JPG


The 'fast fence' here is presumably to keep people from setting up an encampment (I'm guessing); it has the unfortunate effect of taking an already small space and narrowing it considerably. While it certainly didn't bother me at that point
from a safety perspective as a middle-aged, able-bodied man, in the middle of the day, I can see where it might be concerning to some, particularly when daylight wanes or the park is emptier.

As can be see both above and below, the area has become an open area for litter.

DSC07840.JPG


There are no surviving plants except for the towering Norway Maples above, I'm not sure if there was vegetation here prior to any encampments, as the shade is pretty intense, but certainly any activities of this type
would have trampled anything that was there.

Looking ahead along the path (below) we see the fencing for the DOLA on the right, and for the Children's area on the left.

I consider this bad design from a safety perspective as it limits one's ability to evade trouble.

This is one way in which one may argue the space is over-programmed; though, there are possible ways to address it.

DSC07841.JPG


I don't know how busy the DOLA is a peak hours, but I have to say it seemed under-utilized when I was there, there was exactly one dog/dog owner and 2 other people resting on a bench inside the DOLA.

This may well be a very useful feature to the community, and perhaps the total size is required for peak-times, but I would wonder about perhaps shrinking it just a bit.

DSC07844.JPG


How about the Children's Play Area?

DSC07843.JPG


Exactly one parent and one child. On a near perfect, weekend day. I'm a bit underwhelmed. It doesn't look like a bad facility, but certainly at this one moment in time, its draw was not strong.

Lets now look at the AIDS Memorial:

I have to say, overall, its in pretty good shape...........and hey, the Birch trees are actually doing well here!

The Memorial itself seems in good condition, free from any overt vandalism or damage.

One slight knock, there was no one but me looking at it.


DSC07849.JPG


There are bits and bobs of vegetation damage just beyond the Memorial, mostly trampling through or at edge of some planting beds:

DSC07847.JPG


This is easy enough to address with either some protective railings/fences and replanting, I don't think this is a spot to formalize access to the Memorial as it would not read as correct w/people walking between the memorial columns on which the names are displayed.

***

As we get to the far side of the Memorial we look at the north-east (rear) of the park, opposite the DOLA:

DSC07852.JPG


This space seems to lack any program function, which is just fine as far as I'm concerned; though it does seem, perhaps, a bit lackluster, and a bit under used.

Finally, we're back around to where we started, looking at the north entrance, from the opposite side:

DSC07848.JPG


I will shift my comments to a second post as it appears this one is too large to save all together.
 
Tour done, let me add a few further observations before my commentary.

While in the park, I encountered one rather obnoxious person who thought I might be taking his photo in some way, he was off in one of darker corners, near the DOLA having some sort of chat w/2 other young men, and my camera caused a significant outburst of profanity and something that sounded vaguely like a threat.

I may have gestured at the 4 police who were 40ft away, that he hadn't noticed...........at any rate, that doesn't leave a particularly good impression. Needless to say, I wasn't taking his photo and his image does not appear above.

A further issue.....unfortunately, was the number of people in the park obviously in a state of drug-induced intoxication. I counted 4. I don't want to demonize anyone suffering from addiction in any way; but I can understand how people passed out on the ground etc. may impact the comfort of others to make use of the space. I would not want to see any heavy-handed actions here; but some outreach surely seems in order.

Commentary on the Park design:

For such a small space, it is certainly very intensively programmed. Having only visited this once (recently) I don't have a good read on how well the various features are used at other times/days, but my overall
sense is that the space could handle its current program; but some re-arranging would probably be beneficial.

What the re-arranging would entail would depend on the popularity of the various features and I would need more input from park regulars or more extensive observation to judge.

My principle instinct if we were keeping change modest, would be to slightly shrink the DOLA, particularly at its western extent to push back the fencing from edge of the path and reduce any sense of claustrophobia as it were.

I would also look at how to activate the space currently contained by the fast fence.

I feel that space, given how narrow it is, is really just a bit too dark and shady. I don't know that I would want fewer trees per se, but I think I would like to see a couple of the existing ones removed in favour of something like a Birch or an Aspen that will let a bit more dappled light through. This would also help with landscaping underneath the trees.

If the desire were for a planting bed, I think dense planting, and low-height protective railings could be added along the edge.

Alternatively, some of the space could be hardened a bit and see the addition of a ping pong table or chess table etc.

Finally, I think I'd look at protecting those planting beds around the Memorial and and re vegetating the bare spots.

*****

If one were being more ambitious, I think we need to talk purpose. Which is to say, what do we want the space to be? If, for instance we wanted to focus on the child-friendly bit, we probably need a larger space for that with equipment that would appeal to older children, swings and slides and such.

But absent adding land to the park, which would be challenging, any expansion of the play area must come with a design/layout change to the park.

The only logical choice I see would be shifting the children's area to where the lawn is today, and the un-programmed space to its east.

This poses some challenges, in that the space is next to private residential property, also heritage designated; it would likely require removing 2-4 trees as well. While one could split the children's area moving only the play equipment and leaving the water feature where it is; I think this might be problematic for parents/nannies/babysitter keeping an eye on more than one child.

The DOLA seems fine, except for any excess size and challenges created by the fencing.

The Memorial is in good shape and I tend to frown on relocating these sorts of things, so I'm disinclined to do that w/the notation that if the children's area were consolidated to the north side of the park, the memorial could be
redesigned and laid out, along w/the DOLA in the space now occupied by the children's area.

****

The last thought would be on expansion, and/or relocation of any functions that the park currently serves.

I think this is an important discussion for the community because of the plan to develop a new park on the current Green P lot closer to Yonge.
If any of the 3 major functions in Barbara Hall Park were shifted over, it would substantially increase space for the remaining functions.

In terms of expansion, the limitations are substantial.

Obviously the 519 is staying, as is the heritage to the north. The building to the immediate south, along Church is quaint retail with a historical vibe, while not designated, I would find it a challenge to argue for its removal.

That really only leaves growing the park to east, along Cawthra.

The apartment complex does have ample space in front of it that is currently lawn, a semi-circular driveway and a garbage area.
The challenge w/that space is that is strata over a parking garage. Should the building ever be redeveloped, I think there is a legitimate opportunity for a modest expansion of the park here. In its current form, Parks would be loath to take a strata-lease, but it might be a good spot for the DOLA allowing the existing one to be repurposed.

The houses along Cawtha are not heritage, but do contribute something to the fabric of the area, the advantage in removing perhaps the 2 closest to the park, is that Cawthra itself could then be closed in that section and added to the park.

Is it worth the cost? I would leave that to the locals to assess.
 
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A further issue.....unfortunately, was the number of people in the park obviously in a state of drug-induced intoxication. I counted 4. I don't want to demonize anyone suffering from addiction in any way; but I can understand how people passed out on the ground etc. may impact the comfort of others to make use of the space. I would not want to see any heavy-handed actions here; but some outreach surely seems in order.

Like you, I don't want to demonize anyone, but this is the reason there are no kids using the playground. My in-laws live quite close to the park, and we would not go there with the toddler. Both Allan Gardens and College Park are relatively close, and neither have this issue generally.

I live in St. Lawrence and have answered plenty of questions about people we see on the streets, hopefully in an empathetic way, but sometimes you just want to play in the playground.
 
Wow. I ride up Church St. all the time and actually had no idea there was an entire park behind the 519. I'm also realizing that I've somehow combined the north and south sections into one, single space. The entire area has always felt generally 'unsafe' to me, and apparently my brain just 'unsees' the two distinct spaces, or skips over it or something (very China Mieville, City and the City, if anyone knows that book). Fascinating. Thanks for the review!
 
Like you, I don't want to demonize anyone, but this is the reason there are no kids using the playground. My in-laws live quite close to the park, and we would not go there with the toddler. Both Allan Gardens and College Park are relatively close, and neither have this issue generally.

I live in St. Lawrence and have answered plenty of questions about people we see on the streets, hopefully in an empathetic way, but sometimes you just want to play in the playground.
I feel the exact same way - I'm not interested in taking the kids to parks where this is an issue. It's just another potential hassle to deal with and creates an unnecessary level of anxiety that I don't want to be bothered with. I prefer to stick to parks where there are families doing the same thing I'm doing. The most questionable one that I tolerate is the big one in Kensington, where, although there is always a noticeable population of mentally ill and/or addicts present, there are enough hipsters and tourists around as well to dilute the effect.
 
Throwing in a request/challenge for a Christie Pits review! :)

For being one of the larger and more popular parks in the City, it feels like there was minimal thought/love put into its overall design. I believe there was also a small "revitalization" completed around ~2016?

Couple issues I've seen on my weekly walks through it:
- Lackluster main entrance at the Christie/Bloor corner.
- Confusing mismatch of asphalt/gravel pathways.
- General accessibility issues, especially from the north side of the park.
- The sad circular seating and "garden" feature on the south end.
- The sad/small "shade" structure (prime spot for adding an official stage).
- The odd patch of land between 767 and 775 Crawford St that have no clear connection to the park... (I have never seen anyone make use of it).

Would love to hear your thoughts! And it could possibly become your largest park review to date?

Only pic of the "revitalization" plan that I could find from ~2015:

Page11Christie-Pts_Communit.jpg
 
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Throwing in a request/challenge for a Christie Pits review! :)

For being one of the larger and more popular parks in the City, it feels like there was minimal thought/love put into its overall design. I believe there was also a small "revitalization" completed around ~2016?

Couple issues I've seen on my weekly walks through it:
- Lackluster main entrance at the Christie/Bloor corner.
- Confusing mismatch of asphalt/gravel pathways.
- General accessibility issues, especially from the north side of the park.
- The sad circular seating and "garden" feature on the south end.
- The sad/small "shade" structure (prime spot for adding an official stage).
- The odd patch of land between 767 and 775 Crawford St that have no clear connection to the park... (I have never seen anyone make use of it).

Would love to hear your thoughts! And it could possibly become your largest park review to date?

Only pic of the "revitalization" plan that I could find from ~2015:

View attachment 403957

I will add this one to the list! Big park......more than likely a multi-post review.
 
I feel the exact same way - I'm not interested in taking the kids to parks where this is an issue. It's just another potential hassle to deal with and creates an unnecessary level of anxiety that I don't want to be bothered with. I prefer to stick to parks where there are families doing the same thing I'm doing. The most questionable one that I tolerate is the big one in Kensington, where, although there is always a noticeable population of mentally ill and/or addicts present, there are enough hipsters and tourists around as well to dilute the effect.
I didn't know the Barbara Hall park had a playground but wouldn't go for the same reasons. We stopped going to the Kensington park too. We had a couple visits were the park was already in use by those 20+ in age and I didn't feel the kids would be safe.
 

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