zang
Senior Member
For someone who claims to vote centre left, you like to defend conservatives and their policies a whole hell of a lot.
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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario
- Thread starter animatronic
- Start date
Jasmine18
Senior Member
No, I point out how they are all stupid mostly in their own way rather than pretending one side is perfect and everyone else are nazis like you like to do always.
Mike Harris rekt the province but the Ontario Liberals had 13 years in power and got completely destroyed in the last election.
There were reasons for why they did which you ignore. So yes we can blame Mike Harris for a lot but a lot of Ontario's problems came from the liberal party 13 years in office as well.
You may not think that is true but voters overwhelmingly did.
zang
Senior Member
Oh my, that's quite the pedestal you've put yourself on there. Show us the way, dear leader.
No side is perfect. But some sides have enacted policies that have actually killed people. See: Mike Harris, who through legal inquiry was found personally culpable in both the Walkerton and Dudley George deaths.
Sure, and the Liberals made some dumb, dumb moves. But lets not pretend they weren't a minority government courting votes from anyone they could for about half of that.
You compare apples and oranges here. Harris forced municipalities to take on massive amounts of hardship and debt, all to give people a tax break on the provincial taxes, but increasing costs (and taxes) at both the municipal and federal level. It was a shell game for the sake of scoring points that caused EVERYTHING to get more expensive in the long run.
Political mistakes (see: gas plants) are one thing. It's a whole other ballgame making everyone's lives harder to make yourself look like you did something.
Some leaders are just categorically better or worse than others. Reagan, Bush, Clinton and even Obama all had their issues and mistakes. You cannot however, try and pull some kind of equivalence with the current dumpster cheeto they have, so please don't try with Harris vs. the Liberals.
Ford is not as bad as Harris, but Ford has cribbed a lot from ol' Mike, who I might add is a campaign consultant of, mentor to and family friend of Doug.
Combined, in the 2014 election, the Liberals and the NDP had a combined vote tally of 3,007,483. In 2018, the combined number was 3,053,867. So between the two of them, they vast majority of Liberal votes just shifted to the NDP. The Conservatives gained nearly 800,000 new votes since 2014. And I'm willing to bet a good number of those won't be back for the next election for any party. Hell, Ford never got held to account for his failure to produce any kind of in-depth (let alone costed) plan before Election Day.
You like to act like it's all about political decisions. This was a reactionary vote, much like in the US. A lets-blow-sh!t-up-because-it-all-sucks!-vote. Oh, and let's also not pretend that racist, homophobic and anti-immigrant fears didn't bring out a slew of new voters too. Or perhaps you missed all of the "Ben Levin wrote the sex-ed curriculum! (single-handedly, apparently!), the homophobia towards Wynne, etc. Those people weren't voting for policy, they were voting out of bigotry, fear and hatred, see: Sam Oosterhoff, Tanya Granic Allen, Merrilee Fullerton, Andrew Lawton, etc. Even Ford himself has been known to dogwhistle from time to time.
If you want to debate actual policy, fine. But you're not here for that. You're one of those lets-blow-sh!t-up people who likes to pretend you actually care about politics. You half-ass doing any kind of meaningful research, so please just don't bother any more in pretending policy is why you're here.
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Jasmine18
Senior Member
Zang explain how Doug Ford won a ton of minority dominated ridings if it was all about white power...
No you just continue to parrot lines like some first year politics students twitter account.
You say I dont base anything on facts but you are basing on hyperbole.
You think everyone who votes for a left wing party only vote on policy ? Hell no...the last election federally was mostly about anti Scheer or anti Trudeau vote for example.
Plus you cant combine ndp and liberal votes and say there are one give mind. Alot of liberals who are to the middle dont like the ndp at all.
Yes some voters for doug was due to your reasoning but a lot of the vote especially in the GTA was simply want to do something different after getting annoyed with the liberals for 13 years. Be honest anyone could have led the Tories and they likely would have won.
The NDP was not seen as a viable alternative to many middle class people in the suburbs from the liberals. Another reason why it's silly to see them as one voter.
That is what happened then some Trump white power surge as you pretend.
Yes ford won with a minority of votes and that is annoying but Trudeau won the last election by losing the popular vote and where is all the bitching there.
No you just continue to parrot lines like some first year politics students twitter account.
You say I dont base anything on facts but you are basing on hyperbole.
You think everyone who votes for a left wing party only vote on policy ? Hell no...the last election federally was mostly about anti Scheer or anti Trudeau vote for example.
Plus you cant combine ndp and liberal votes and say there are one give mind. Alot of liberals who are to the middle dont like the ndp at all.
Yes some voters for doug was due to your reasoning but a lot of the vote especially in the GTA was simply want to do something different after getting annoyed with the liberals for 13 years. Be honest anyone could have led the Tories and they likely would have won.
The NDP was not seen as a viable alternative to many middle class people in the suburbs from the liberals. Another reason why it's silly to see them as one voter.
That is what happened then some Trump white power surge as you pretend.
Yes ford won with a minority of votes and that is annoying but Trudeau won the last election by losing the popular vote and where is all the bitching there.
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zang
Senior Member
It was not all about "white power", and it clearly seems you glossed over what I said. Racism was one part of it. As was homophobia and other forms of intolerance. But I did forget to mention the anti-intellectuals, if it makes you feel any better? Is it mere coincidence that several of the candidates that Ford *hand picked* for ridings have since said controversial things about gender, race, sexual orientation?
Regardless, racism did play a part in this election, as Ford was proudly endorsed by known racists and racist organizations:
https://stopracism.ca/content/doug-ford’s-victory-also-one-white-nationalists:
Ford's election coincided with a rise in hate crimes:
Why hate crimes are on the rise across Ontario | TVO.org
New Statistics Canada numbers shows a substantial increase in reported hate crimes. We talk to UOIT professor Barbara Perry about right-wing populism, the reliability of data, and how police can do more.
And so far, Ford has completely cut or reduced funding to:
Anishinabek/Ontario Fisheries Resource Centre (reduced by 70%)
Legal aid for Immigrants and Asylum Seekers (eliminated)
Indigenous Culture Fund (eliminated)
Anti-Racism Subcommittees (eliminated)
Mandatory additions to school curriculum on Indigenous history, peoples and contributions (eliminated)
Removal of funding preventing the expulsion of BIPOC students from Ottawa public schools (eliminated)
Cancelled the government mandated anti-racism conference (eliminated)
And that's not including the cuts that indirectly and disproportionately affect BIPOC communities, like cutting the planned minimum wage increase, funding cuts to Toronto Public Health, Free tuition for low-income students, cuts to childcare, rent control, the UBI trial, the school repair fund.
Translation: "I'm going to prove I use facts by merely saying you exaggerate."
Okay, the "whataboutism" starts to come out, but I'll bite. No. I did not say people vote for any left wing party strictly based on policy. What I said was this was a reactionary vote.
Regardless, I said, "You like to act like it's all about political decisions."
I'm personally quite aware that a lot of the last election was NOT about policy.
I feel you must be confounded by the fact that the Liberals still held on to more than half of their previous votes then? You seem to have a black and white, all-or-nothing view.
Ahem.
Whataboutism - Wikipedia
And again, you seem well intent on defending a party you claim you don't vote for.
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Yes but equating ford victory to be like trump is flawed
It's quite different then the US 2016 election.
-It was a clear win in votes and seats.
-Tories got a lot of support from minorities.
- alot of anger at liberal policies.
So if people got pissed at harper or wynne it's due to years of bad policy decisions. In the end its raw anger but it's based on bad policies over many years that caused the anger.
So the issue Is i understand these things in order to understand how to stop Ford.
Ndp still is a non starter in the 905 and suburbs.
Liberals need a charismatic well known leader to rally the progressive vote from the ndp.
I dont defend I just look at things fully.
You think ford win was like trump's I dont think it was.
Now I dont agree with you so I must be the enemy. Really lol
XD
It's quite different then the US 2016 election.
-It was a clear win in votes and seats.
-Tories got a lot of support from minorities.
- alot of anger at liberal policies.
So if people got pissed at harper or wynne it's due to years of bad policy decisions. In the end its raw anger but it's based on bad policies over many years that caused the anger.
So the issue Is i understand these things in order to understand how to stop Ford.
Ndp still is a non starter in the 905 and suburbs.
Liberals need a charismatic well known leader to rally the progressive vote from the ndp.
I dont defend I just look at things fully.
You think ford win was like trump's I dont think it was.
Now I dont agree with you so I must be the enemy. Really lol
XD
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Northern Light
Superstar
Government News Release here:
Ontario Newsroom
news.ontario.ca
Not yet clear what the funding formula for distribution is; or Toronto/TTC's share.
Doug was livid about that party. He wants a $100,000 fine for the homeowner.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Should require a COVID-19 test for each of the partiers and organizers.
He did mention them too, just not with such a significant penalty.
Northern Light
Superstar
Attachments
Towered
Senior Member
Any theories as to why Brampton seems to be a hot spot for pandemic disobedience?
Northern Light
Superstar
Jonny5
Senior Member
People in their early 20's (including students) living at home with their parents who are at this point desperate to get out of the house and socialise with some other people?
EDIT: I know someone in that situation who is finishing his final year at York U. Basically he can't take it anymore. Before his father and mother would go to work, and he went to class, so, outside of weekends, they didn't really see each other that often, but now it's getting to him that they are there 24/7 watching and commenting on everything he does, LOL