Yonge Street Revitalization (Downtown Yonge BIA/City of Toronto)

[Richard White]

From what I have read, heated sidewalks are not efficient when the temperature gets really cold, as it does in Montreal. The average high/low in January are 1C/-5C in Oslo, compared to -4C/-14C in Montreal. It's a significant difference. The snow that melts on the sidewalks has to go somewhere. Some of it evaporates, but some of the melted snow can freeze again before it gets to the sewer.

Heated sidewalks are nice but if it hits -30 Celsius with the windchill the heat will be negated. Safer to use salt otherwise you risk creating a skating rink from the runoff.

 

[MisterF]

I'd love to see the busiest part of Yonge Street closed off to traffic altogether. It has all the elements of a successful pedestrian conversation - it's an already busy commercial district with hopelessly crowded sidewalks and no need to be a traffic artery. The lane reductions that have been talked about are too modest, IMO.

Heated sidewalks are nice but if it hits -30 Celsius with the windchill the heat will be negated. Safer to use salt otherwise you risk creating a skating rink from the runoff.

To be fair, -30 isn't very common in Toronto, even with the windchill. Our winters are closer to Oslo than Montreal, with average temperatures of -1/-7 in January.

 

[Johnny Au]

I'd love to see the busiest part of Yonge Street closed off to traffic altogether. It has all the elements of a successful pedestrian conversation - it's an already busy commercial district with hopelessly crowded sidewalks and no need to be a traffic artery. The lane reductions that have been talked about are too modest, IMO.


To be fair, -30 isn't very common in Toronto, even with the windchill. Our winters are closer to Oslo than Montreal, with average temperatures of -1/-7 in January.

Not just that, but unlike Montreal, Toronto is closer to the equator than to the North Pole (though latitude is just one of many factors).

 

[jje1000]

Article from the Globe with some hints at direction, and some visualizations of road options:

Yonge at heart and with hopes pinned on a fresh start

The most groundbreaking idea being floated by the city involves Yonge going completely car-free in this area. Less radical would be reducing the number of driving lanes. Either would free up space for people on foot, as well as for patios and sidewalk amenities.

Without reason to or places to stop, this part of Yonge, particularly south of Gerrard, has become something of a pedestrian thoroughfare. It fails at the urban goal of being “sticky” – encouraging people to stay a while.

“There should be spaces that are just free for people to congregate and to come together,” said Kristyn Wong-Tam, the local councillor. “Right now on Yonge Street, people are rushing to get through the neighbourhood, because there’s really no quality spaces for people to stay and linger.”

She said that revamping the downtown part of Yonge is just the first part of a larger revitalization planned to stretch all the way from the lake to Davenport Road. And she noted that Toronto’s downtown is competing with other cities that are pouring money and creative energy into their own centres.

Of the 13 Yonge Street options put forward by the city, most involve substantial increases to the amount of space for those on foot.

At their most extreme, two of the options close the road entirely to automobiles. Other possibilities involve reducing automobile road space by anywhere from one to three lanes – from the current four – and dividing that real estate among pedestrians and, possibly, cyclists.

One model that could emerge is a street that is neither fully open to vehicles, nor fully closed. Examples of this sort of flexible street include Dundas Place in London, Ont. This project is designed to have neither curbs nor gutters, relying on movable bollards to define how motorists and others can use the space.

The BIA is not taking a position yet on which of the Yonge redesign options might be best. But the group has previously called for wider sidewalks and less space for drivers.

Yonge at heart and with hopes pinned on a fresh start

Toronto is using an imminent water-main project as a chance to reimagine its main drag, where the population is booming and the sidewalks are congested

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[Irishmonk]

Full pedestrianization of Yonge from Queen to Bloor should have happened 30 years ago. Anything less than that now will be the result of a spineless compromise--which, I believe, Tory needs to sustain a pulse.

 

[MisterF]

Full pedestrianization of Yonge from Queen to Bloor should have happened 30 years ago. Anything less than that now will be the result of a spineless compromise--which, I believe, Tory needs to sustain a pulse.

Yeah, only in Toronto would pedestrianizing part of a street like Yonge be considered "radical", as the Globe article calls it. I don't think it needs to be the full length from Queen to Bloor though, at least not at first. That's a full 2 km. I'm not aware of any pedestrian streets that are that long, although there very well could be some that I'm not aware of.

 

[Northern Light]

I happen to favour a model that reduces Yonge from 4 vehicle lanes to 2 lanes.

Unquestionably we need wider sidewalks and more pedestrian space; we also, on one road between Church in the East and Bay in the west need N-S bike lanes.

That said, I want everyone to contemplate where the TTC is going to run shuttle bus service when Line 1 is shut down, if there are zero vehicle lanes on any section of Yonge.

I'm open to other choices, but they would have to be very close; and a management plan would be required as to how to address that.

Same issue applies for the Yonge Blue Night Bus. This may be addressed by 24-hour operation of Line 1, pending ATC completion, but if so, that must be planned for and committed to.

Even then, I expect the odd shut down for construction, how would that be handled? There won't be a Relief Line before the late 2020s, at the earliest, and that really doesn't full address the issue.

 

[innsertnamehere]

^ other cities manage. Just run them on Bay and post signs for people to walk a block. Lets not design a street for something that happens once in a blue moon.

I believe the first phase is Queen to College.

 

[Northern Light]

^ other cities manage. Just run them on Bay and post signs for people to walk a block. Lets not design a street for something that happens once in a blue moon.

I believe the first phase is Queen to College.

Blue moon?

The TTC has six instances of shuttles on Line 1 scheduled just for the month of May. Those six instances run across 19 total days of the next 24.

Scheduled Subway Closures

The Toronto Transit Commission is the quick, convenient and safe way to get around Toronto. The subway system is linked with buses and streetcars to get you around Toronto on one fare, provided it's a one-way trip with no stopovers. You can travel on the TTC every day.

www.ttc.ca

In my experience they have 1-2 unscheduled instances per week. That would add 7 more by month's end for 31 instances of requiring shuttle buses in a 24 day period.

Its also chaotic as it is, when it happens. I was stuck in one the other day at Bloor-Yonge at 7pm. It took almost 20m to get any shuttle buses on scene, about 7m to get staff on scene, no clear identification of where the stop was to be; buses having to compete w/traffic.....the sidewalks were clogged to overflowing.........

I don't think directing people to walk 2 extra blocks to a street that does not run parallel to Yonge north of Bloor is all that workable.

Keep in mind it takes 20 conventional buses to replace a single train set in terms of crush load capacity. For a delay of any length, this means running no less than 60 buses over a short distance.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Blue moon?

The TTC has six instances of shuttles on Line 1 scheduled just for the month of May. Those six instances run across 19 total days of the next 24.

Scheduled Subway Closures

The Toronto Transit Commission is the quick, convenient and safe way to get around Toronto. The subway system is linked with buses and streetcars to get you around Toronto on one fare, provided it's a one-way trip with no stopovers. You can travel on the TTC every day.

www.ttc.ca

In my experience they have 1-2 unscheduled instances per week. That would add 7 more by month's end for 31 instances of requiring shuttle buses in a 24 day period.

Its also chaotic as it is, when it happens. I was stuck in one the other day at Bloor-Yonge at 7pm. It took almost 20m to get any shuttle buses on scene, about 7m to get staff on scene, no clear identification of where the stop was to be; buses having to compete w/traffic.....the sidewalks were clogged to overflowing.........

I don't think directing people to walk 2 extra blocks to a street that does not run parallel to Yonge north of Bloor is all that workable.

Keep in mind it takes 20 conventional buses to replace a single train set in terms of crush load capacity. For a delay of any length, this means running no less than 60 buses over a short distance.

But they are all on that specific stretch of Yonge? Only two of those closures are for this actual stretch - and these closures will reduce significantly with ATC complete. Shuttle buses running between Eglinton and Bloor will not be influenced by a pedestrian stretch of Yonge between Queen and College.

 

[UrbanFervour]

Even if the City pedestrianizes some or all of Yonge, I fear that in a few years they'll break up the pavers, sloppily patch over them with tar or some other mismatching material, spray ugly orange paint everywhere, neglect all the shrubs until they die, and let it all quickly fall to sh*t :/

 

[pman]

Even if the City pedestrianizes some or all of Yonge, I fear that in a few years they'll break up the pavers, sloppily patch over them with tar or some other mismatching material, spray ugly orange paint everywhere, neglect all the shrubs until they die, and let it all quickly fall to sh*t :/

Totally agree. In the unlikely event the City rebuilds Yonge, presumably they’ll almost immediately need to tear it up around the College, Dundas, Queen and King stations to deal with waterproofing issues and capacity upgrades. Then they’ll have to tear up the street repeatedly for uncoordinated utility work that either wasn’t done at all or wasn’t done right during the rebuild.

 

[Blixtein]

It's very telling this thread got started in May of 2009. Ten years later to the day and still absolutely nothing has been accomplished to make this street better.

 

[lead82]

Absolutely nothing will happen to Yonge. The powers that be don't want to invest in the city. With the recent downloading by Ford onto the city's shoulders, this project as well as others (Like the John St. corridor) lay by the wayside waiting for a new mayor and council who are willing to invest in city places to make them enjoyable.

 

[44 North]

Absolutely nothing will happen to Yonge. The powers that be don't want to invest in the city. With the recent downloading by Ford onto the city's shoulders, this project as well as others (Like the John St. corridor) lay by the wayside waiting for a new mayor and council who are willing to invest in city places to make them enjoyable.

Feel like if a new council were to undertake these things you mention it'd give the province more reason to download. "See, look at Toronto wasting money not finding efficiencies"...cut cut.