Roads: Traffic Signals

[steveintoronto]

There's a problem though with NOT erecting stop signs: It was relaxed some years back in Toronto, only to find that indeed, accidents at unsigned intersections rose.

Having no STOP signs in some societies works quite well. But they are more cohesive and observant societies. Toronto is a very non-compliant driving culture. I could see it starting to deteriorate when I started commercial driving fifty years ago. As crazy as things got back then, you could still pretty much 'suss' what people were going to do, even if they shouldn't.

There's no way that is even close to possible nowadays. Shit just happens...people do the most unpredictable things driving. And appear totally unaware or concerned about the consequences.

How bad are Toronto drivers? Watch a shopping mall parking lot with no signs, (private property not applicable under the HTA in Ontario)(private parking lots are covered in most other provinces) and watch the complete mayhem that ensues. Because it's on private property, the accidents aren't compiled by the cops or government.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=onta...80j0j7&client=ubuntu&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Kitchener roundabouts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/comments/9bb0dv

 

[44 North]

I made a video covering the basics of Toronto's Transit Signal Priority system:

Let me know if there are particular topics you think I should cover in parts 2 and 3.

Great video explaining Transit Signal Priority. And filmed well with nice zooms, parts of the city seemed almost unrecognizable they looked so good. O/T, but wonder how easy it would be for a private user to "hack" the system allowing TSP for themselves (and other drivers around them). You say it's controlled through radio, which gives me the impression of and old school analog setup for some reason though likely a bit more complex. And do EMS/fire/police use this too?

 

[reaperexpress]

Great video explaining Transit Signal Priority. And filmed well with nice zooms, parts of the city seemed almost unrecognizable they looked so good.

Thanks!

O/T, but wonder how easy it would be for a private user to "hack" the system allowing TSP for themselves (and other drivers around them). You say it's controlled through radio, which gives me the impression of and old school analog setup for some reason though likely a bit more complex. And do EMS/fire/police use this too?

It is specifically illegal to hack into the priority system:

Highway Traffic Act 79.1

Pre-empting traffic control signal devices prohibited
79.1 (1) No person shall drive on a highway a motor vehicle that is equipped with, carries, contains or has attached to it a pre-empting traffic control signal device. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 22.

There's an exemption to the above for signal maintenance and transit vehicles.

And even if someone did that, it wouldn't be as great as you might think because the priority system is designed based on the anticipated travel characteristics of the transit route. Remember that in order to provide a green light when you arrive at the intersection, the system needs to have a prediction of when you'll arrive at the intersection. So to get the full benefit of priority, you'd need to stop your car for the expected amount of time at each transit stop, which kind of defeats the purpose of hacking into the signal priority.

For this same reason, emergency vehicles do not use the transit priority system. Fire services has their own pre-emption system which is much stronger than the transit priority system and is equipped at 50 signals near fire stations. In the City's Open Data (conveniently displayed here), you can see which system is equipped at each signal. For example, signal #0194 St Clair & Earlscourt is equipped with transit priority (for east-west streetcars) as well as fire pre-emption (for southbound fire trucks coming out of Fire Station #342:

 

[amnesiajune]

For this same reason, emergency vehicles do not use the transit priority system. Fire services has their own pre-emption system which is much stronger than the transit priority system and is equipped at 50 signals near fire stations. In the City's Open Data (conveniently displayed here), you can see which system is equipped at each signal. For example, signal #0194 St Clair & Earlscourt is equipped with transit priority (for east-west streetcars) as well as fire pre-emption (for southbound fire trucks coming out of Fire Station #342:

I'm not sure about Toronto, but ambulances and fire trucks have their own signal priority system in parts of York Region that keeps lights green or turns all lights red until they've gotten through.

 

[reaperexpress]

I'm not sure about Toronto, but ambulances and fire trucks have their own signal priority system in parts of York Region that keeps lights green or turns all lights red until they've gotten through.

From the link you're quoting:

Firehall Preemption
Getting to the scene of a fire or another emergency situation as quickly and safely as possible means saving lives. That’s the reason the City of Toronto has put in place a system to allow the fire division to temporarily affect traffic lights in order to get to an emergency even faster.

It works this way. A push button, which activates the traffic signal, is located in the radio room or in the truck bays at the fire hall. Once activated, the traffic signals are programmed to allow emergency vehicles to move quickly and safely on their way. In all, 50 traffic control signals are equipped with these circuits. These signals are located at either fire station exits or close to the stations. Once the emergency vehicles have passed through the traffic signals, the traffic lights return to their regular sequence.

Typical Cost of an Emergency Vehicle Preemption Installation
The installation cost can vary from $10,000 to $60,000. The majority of the cost is related to the hardwire or wireless interconnect from the pushbuttons in the firehall to the cabinet at the intersection. The wireless connections are cheaper and faster to install.

Installing Universal Emergency Vehicle Preemption at all Toronto Intersections
Toronto’s existing signals infrastructure does not support this technology. A huge capital investment would be required to upgrade the existing infrastructure and to install transmission/receiving equipment on the fire trucks.

 

[lenaitch]

From the link you're quoting:

Firehall Preemption
Getting to the scene of a fire or another emergency situation as quickly and safely as possible means saving lives. That’s the reason the City of Toronto has put in place a system to allow the fire division to temporarily affect traffic lights in order to get to an emergency even faster.

It works this way. A push button, which activates the traffic signal, is located in the radio room or in the truck bays at the fire hall. Once activated, the traffic signals are programmed to allow emergency vehicles to move quickly and safely on their way. In all, 50 traffic control signals are equipped with these circuits. These signals are located at either fire station exits or close to the stations. Once the emergency vehicles have passed through the traffic signals, the traffic lights return to their regular sequence.

Typical Cost of an Emergency Vehicle Preemption Installation
The installation cost can vary from $10,000 to $60,000. The majority of the cost is related to the hardwire or wireless interconnect from the pushbuttons in the firehall to the cabinet at the intersection. The wireless connections are cheaper and faster to install.

Installing Universal Emergency Vehicle Preemption at all Toronto Intersections
Toronto’s existing signals infrastructure does not support this technology. A huge capital investment would be required to upgrade the existing infrastructure and to install transmission/receiving equipment on the fire trucks.

It is possible that the poster was thinking of a system used in some municipalities (in my observation, fire only) where a vehicle-mounted strobe triggers a pole mounted sensor to interrupt the sequence to either green in favour or all stop.

 

[lenaitch]

There's a problem though with NOT erecting stop signs: It was relaxed some years back in Toronto, only to find that indeed, accidents at unsigned intersections rose.

Having no STOP signs in some societies works quite well. But they are more cohesive and observant societies. Toronto is a very non-compliant driving culture. I could see it starting to deteriorate when I started commercial driving fifty years ago. As crazy as things got back then, you could still pretty much 'suss' what people were going to do, even if they shouldn't.

There's no way that is even close to possible nowadays. Shit just happens...people do the most unpredictable things driving. And appear totally unaware or concerned about the consequences.

How bad are Toronto drivers? Watch a shopping mall parking lot with no signs, (private property not applicable under the HTA in Ontario)(private parking lots are covered in most other provinces) and watch the complete mayhem that ensues. Because it's on private property, the accidents aren't compiled by the cops or government.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=onta...80j0j7&client=ubuntu&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Kitchener roundabouts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/kitchener/comments/9bb0dv

This is so very true, although I'm unsure if the root cause is lack of knowledge or simple self-centeredness. Most people have no clue how to function at an all-way stop let alone an uncontrolled intersection. One only needs to watch the utter confusion or ignorance at a light-controlled intersection when either the lights are out or their logic has failed and go into flashing red/amber. Yield signs are just suggestions.

I lived in a town that had very few stops signs. Most intersections were controlled by yield signs. We all lived through it. It is possible, but not in the GTA nor perhaps any large and busy municipality.

Perhaps municipalities should stop using them as a means to solve local complaints and focus on actual traffic dynamics principles.

There are a few new roundabouts near here installed in the past five or so years. I am still very cautious using them, especially so on the motorcycle, since I see far too many drivers who have no clue how to use them. The issue of the amount of land required would be limiting. The radius has to be able to accommodate large trucks. Some would say large trucks have no place on residential streets, which maybe true until someone needs a moving company, large delivery or contractor, or their house is on fire.

 

[reaperexpress]

Since moving to the Netherlands, I have been examining how Dutch traffic signals manage to be so much more flexible and safe than Canadian ones, and I think a key factor is the widespread use of multi-stage crossings. And unlike the examples you might know in the GTA (University Ave, Highway 7, etc), the multi-stage crossings in the Netherlands still allow pedestrians to cross the street in one go.

I made a video to illustrate my thoughts:

 

[Towered]

I also noticed when driving in Europe that there are many yield signs but few stop signs. Here it's the opposite.

 

[Towered]

Also wanted to note a number of new traffic lights being installed:

Dundas and St. Patrick
Queen and McCaul
Lansdowne and Whytock
Annette and Quebec

All of those are well overdue. I also have a personal list of places where I think there really should be lights...

 

[JasonParis]

I believe Richmond W & Simcoe finally has a light as well.

 

[Towered]

I believe Richmond W & Simcoe finally has a light as well.

Yup, for a while now.

 

[11th]

Since moving to the Netherlands, I have been examining how Dutch traffic signals manage to be so much more flexible and safe than Canadian ones, and I think a key factor is the widespread use of multi-stage crossings. And unlike the examples you might know in the GTA (University Ave, Highway 7, etc), the multi-stage crossings in the Netherlands still allow pedestrians to cross the street in one go.

I made a video to illustrate my thoughts:

This works well for jurisdictions that do not allow turns on red.
A more basic set up would be 4 phases of advance green, with pedestrians getting the walk phases on crosswalks that do not conflict with moving traffic.
That means, if you get a walk signal, no traffic will be in your way. Vice versa for vehicles getting a green light.
Benefits of this setup also include shorter countdown time and elimination of dedicated turning lanes.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

This works well for jurisdictions that do not allow turns on red.
A more basic set up would be 4 phases of advance green, with pedestrians getting the walk phases on crosswalks that do not conflict with moving traffic.
That means, if you get a walk signal, no traffic will be in your way. Vice versa for vehicles getting a green light.
Benefits of this setup also include shorter countdown time and elimination of dedicated turning lanes.

The cities of Montréal and New York City are the only jurisdictions that prohibit right turns on red lights. Unless otherwise signed. Maybe it's time for Toronto (and the GTHA) to join them?

 

[Johnny Au]

The cities of Montréal and New York City are the only jurisdictions that prohibit right turns on red lights. Unless otherwise signed. Maybe it's time for Toronto (and the GTHA) to join them?

What else do Montréal and New York City have in common? Both are on islands! Except for the Bronx when it comes to New York City.

Toronto can have a canal running along its city limits so that Toronto can become an island.