Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[raptor]

I wonder if Ford can use this to negotiate a fully grade separated Eglinton line.

Province agrees with Contractor that they should get an extra $1B and an extra year of construction due to errors in the original contract.
In exchange, the Contractor agrees to make the Brentcliffe to Kennedy portion grade separated for $1B.

The Contractors happy as they get resolution on their claim, and get some extra work (upon which they can make additional profit).
The province is happy as they can blame the previous government for a bulk of the cost overruns, and how for a nominal extra amount, they created a fully grade-separated line.

Wouldn't it require a new EA (or at least an addendum), so at least 2 years for studying + engineering? what is the contractor supposed to do in the meantime?

 

[hw621]

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Wouldn't it require a new EA (or at least an addendum), so at least 2 years for studying + engineering? what is the contractor supposed to do in the meantime?

Plus the line will get delayed even further.

AoD

 

[cplchanb]

Interesting timing.

AoD

I must say these contractors are just pure mafia crooks (ie SNC...). Sure metrolinx isnt a shining example but this timeline was known for years and to make an excuse for more money is just political games.
They knew what they were getting into and they really shoulve priced accordingly, unless there is indeed such a significant departure from the plans that would require $1B (!) more.
Either that or the engineers who designed the system made significant errors or revisions to the tender drawings.

 

[raptor]

I must say these contractors are just pure mafia crooks (ie SNC...). Sure metrolinx isnt a shining example but this timeline was known for years and to make an excuse for more money is just political games.
They knew what they were getting into and they really shoulve priced accordingly, unless there is indeed such a significant departure from the plans that would require $1B (!) more.
Either that or the engineers who designed the system made significant errors or revisions to the tender drawings.

That's all true, however I can't see what they have to lose with this lawsuit. Given the timing, looks like a it's a sure win for them

 

[crs1026]

Every large project has a Claims process where the contractor can seek relief for things that went wrong, change orders, unforeseens, etc. Usually that’s a cleanup process that happens towards the end of the project, but it can lead into the courts.
The timing on this is interesting - any number of potential reasons, one being the project is at loggerheads over things, another being that with Wynne gone the vendor is finally able to bring things to light, or as noted there could be a cash flow problem. After the Bombardier debacle, ML’s credibility is not high, so my Spidey senses are tingling.

- Paul

 

[cplchanb]

Every large project has a Claims process where the contractor can seek relief for things that went wrong, change orders, unforeseens, etc. Usually that’s a cleanup process that happens towards the end of the project, but it can lead into the courts.
The timing on this is interesting - any number of potential reasons, one being the project is at loggerheads over things, another being that with Wynne gone the vendor is finally able to bring things to light, or as noted there could be a cash flow problem. After the Bombardier debacle, ML’s credibility is not high, so my Spidey senses are tingling.

- Paul

Thats true. Being in the construction industry myself if there needs to be a change or a fix they action first and then claim afterwards. As mentioned the timing seems like they were scheming on suing from the onset knowing that a change in govt would lead to turmoil during the transition. Dirty politics and profiteering I must say at the expense of the everyday citizen. Crosslinx has the typical me first and money mentality which isnt wrong, but just a real dick move at a critical point of the project.

 

[ShonTron]

The timing on this is interesting - any number of potential reasons, one being the project is at loggerheads over things, another being that with Wynne gone the vendor is finally able to bring things to light, or as noted there could be a cash flow problem.

Or simply that the contractor decided not to go ahead with a lawsuit too close to the election period, and was sitting on this for a few months. Now a government is formed.

 

[steveintoronto]

Or simply that the contractor decided not to go ahead with a lawsuit too close to the election period, and was sitting on this for a few months. Now a government is formed.

The rumblings have been around for the last six months on this. I really can't see any epiphany from Crosslinx with the election outcome,, I suspect it's just a case of serendipity.

If anything, Crosslinx need to protect contract(s) as written even more with a Dougie Dog who loves to rip up contracts like toys. There were massive delays on the project, and that always pushes up costs that are usually settled by discussion and/or arbitration. But lawsuits are tools of the trade too: (And this can go both ways)

Litigation Risks in Public-private Partnerships
Tuesday, July 25, 2017
P3
[...]
LITIGATION BETWEEN PARTIES TO THE AGREEMENT
A well-drafted P3 contract should have a dispute resolution clause providing for some type of mandatory notification of the alleged default(s), an opportunity to cure the same and, perhaps, even a mandatory alternative dispute resolution procedure to be used before a lawsuit may be filed. Governments typically loathe spending money on litigation of any sort. Accordingly, the agreement should be drafted to encourage the informal resolution of minor or easily curable issues without (the threat of) litigation.

Private partners most often find themselves as defendants in a suit filed by the government partner as a result of issues like grave construction flaws (such as the collapsing tunnel ceiling that killed a Boston woman as a result of shoddy work on the Big Dig); a major ambiguity in the underlying agreement; or a serious error on the private entity’s part in calculating or preparing its bid. Importantly, the risk associated with all such issues can be managed in advance; doing so may require more time and the investment of additional resources, economic and otherwise, on the front end, but the risk of failing to do so is considerable. Consulting with an attorney at the beginning of a P3 relationship can pay major dividends by entirely avoiding or significantly mitigating future litigation costs.
[...]

http://constructionexec.com/article/litigation-risks-in-public-private-partnerships

 

[cplchanb]

The rumblings have been around for the last six months on this. I really can't see any epiphany from Crosslinx with the election outcome,, I suspect it's just a case of serendipity.

If anything, Crosslinx need to protect contract(s) as written even more with a Dougie Dog who loves to rip up contracts like toys. There were massive delays on the project, and that always pushes up costs that are usually settled by discussion and/or arbitration. But lawsuits are tools of the trade too: (And this can go both ways)

http://constructionexec.com/article/litigation-risks-in-public-private-partnerships

well regardless, they need to keep the project going in order to mitigate it becoming a gongshow a la the line 1 extension. The last thing anyone wants is to have construction stop while the shitshow gets sorted whatever direction.

 

[steveintoronto]

[...]
If Ford does pull the plug, as brother Rob famously attempted to on day one of his mayoralty, everyone should know that he’ll be setting fire to a whole lot of taxpayer dollars. According to Metrolinx, the province has budgeted $10 billion for the five big Greater Toronto LRT lines (Eglinton, Finch, Sheppard, Hurontario and Hamilton), of which $4.2 billion has been spent. Most, of course, has gone to the Eglinton Crosstown.

I’d say there’s virtually zero chance that a Ford government would stop that project because the sunk costs are so great, the cancelation penalties so steep.
[...]

http://spacing.ca/toronto/2018/03/22/doug-ford-government-will-transit/

I'm not quite as sure...

 

[nfitz]

View attachment 149794

Ah interesting.

What about the existing TTC to GO tunnel. Hopefully it remains, or it will actually make for a longer walk than now, connecting from Line 2 (and especially Line 3) to GO.

 

[hw621]

Ah interesting.

What about the existing TTC to GO tunnel. Hopefully it remains, or it will actually make for a longer walk than now, connecting from Line 2 (and especially Line 3) to GO.

I think it is 7 in the rendering.

 

[Miscreant]

Does it have to wait at traffic lights?

Yep, it does. I lived in Boston for almost 7 years. The Green Line is notorious for bad service. But it depends on which branch you get one. The B line out to Boston College from Kenmore is the worst, since it goes through Boston University and Allston. The C line is better, which takes you through Brookline. The D line is not bad.

It stops at all lights, and is painfully slow and often jammed to the gills. That being said, I used Boston's T daily and overall it's better than the TTC, despite how loathed it is by Bostonians. The fare card system in particular is easy and virtually flawless/idiot proof.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I found I really disliked Boston's system when I visited a few years ago. Old, ratty, completely falling apart. The TTC feels much cleaner and more comfortable.