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Metrolinx: Other Items (catch all)

^I can understand the need to renew HVAC, electricals, etc. And the strategy of redeveloping all the unused space on the lower levels for commercial revenue made eminent sense. But - not starting with the core operational service requirements, and designing outwards from that core need, is deplorable.
This was a bunch of development people and heritage fanatics (I say that as a heritage fanatic myself, btw) renovating a pretty building for its aesthetic value, with an eye to its potential value as a shopping mall.....not an operating railroad designing a train station to perform its core function better for another hundred years under ever increasing loads.
If it turns out that the whole platform design was constrained from the start by the desire to preserve that damn trainshed.....I’m willing to help start a crowdfunding page to buy some hacksaw blades....

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
^I can understand the need to renew HVAC, electricals, etc. And the strategy of redeveloping all the unused space on the lower levels for commercial revenue made eminent sense. But - not starting with the core operational service requirements, and designing outwards from that core need, is deplorable.
This was a bunch of development people and heritage fanatics (I say that as a heritage fanatic myself, btw) renovating a pretty building for its aesthetic value, with an eye to its potential value as a shopping mall.....not an operating railroad designing a train station to perform its core function better for another hundred years under ever increasing loads.
If it turns out that the whole platform design was constrained from the start by the desire to preserve that damn trainshed.....I’m willing to help start a crowdfunding page to buy some hacksaw blades....

- Paul
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I never thought of it that way, but now that you say it... This sounds to me like the most plausible explanation.

If so, huge shame on those people involved, and on Toronto for allowing it to happen. We've spent billions to make the building truly gorgeous - but in the process lost a piece of functional infrastructure.
 
Is there anything inherently part of Union Station prior to revitalization that made it unsuitable to a complete reimagining of the station other than the obvious heritage things like the station building and the station shed/roof?

I was just looking at some of the major stations in London, and I came across London Bridge Station, which looked similar to Union Station. Excluding the tracks that terminate, would this have been a good starting point?
 
Leo_Chan said:
Is there anything inherently part of Union Station prior to revitalization that made it unsuitable to a complete reimagining of the station other than the obvious heritage things like the station building and the station shed/roof?

I was just looking at some of the major stations in London, and I came across London Bridge Station, which looked similar to Union Station. Excluding the tracks that terminate, would this have been a good starting point?
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Because it's Toronto and what others are doing is not really important because we have all the answers right here.

I agree with what you've written above. Apparently misguided aesthetics can torpedo a multi-billion dollar rebuild of a train station. You pay that much for a rail hub, you get a shopping centre. Too bad for you.
 
Maybe we can review Verster's interview. He was indicating that works on tracks and platforms have yet to begin. That is why they set the completion date to 2025.
 
Leo_Chan said:
Is there anything inherently part of Union Station prior to revitalization that made it unsuitable to a complete reimagining of the station other than the obvious heritage things like the station building and the station shed/roof?

I was just looking at some of the major stations in London, and I came across London Bridge Station, which looked similar to Union Station. Excluding the tracks that terminate, would this have been a good starting point?
Click to expand...

The whole of the structure along Front Street - the Great Hall, and the wings on either side of that - is an architectural treasure for the City, so keeping and restoring all of it was the right move.

I'm not so sure that the rest of the station has any lasting value. One could argue whether the project should have demolished everything south of the Great Hall and done a total bedrock-up rebuild. That is how the station was built in the first place. It would have been an opportunity to renew all the pilings right down to bedrock. The station was built on fill and sits on what was once lake - I sure hope the pilings are good for another century.

Yes, that would have played havoc with commuters over the past decade, but many things would have been possible.... upper and lower level platforms, entirely new platform spacings, a new trainshed, development of air rights, etc.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
Yes, that would have played havoc with commuters over the past decade, but many things would have been possible.... upper and lower level platforms, entirely new platform spacings, a new trainshed, development of air rights, etc.
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Not a fan of the air rights thing. Having just rode from TO to Montreal yesterday, I can confidently say that I'll take Union's dingy bush shed with sort-of see through roof over Gare Central's air-righted subterranean lair any day of the week!
 
Filip said:
I need to ask my sources more questions - especially the difference in weight between the current GO tanks and EMUs. However, the high level is each track is supported by large columns directly beneath. These all have to be aligned or a train risks taking the shortcut to the new mall underneath the station. Obviously consolidating tracks/platforms will mean some tracks will not be above columns; especially if you're trying to maximize space by having a platform - track - track - platform - track - track layout.

It is a massive expense to make that work - one that will likely require more closures of the newly built (or almost newly built) concourses. How do you sell that to the public?
Click to expand...

So I found a reference or two that describes what you are saying, albeit less scandalously:
As the hub of the CityRail system, Union Station would need special attention. CityRail could actually reduce the pressure on Union Station by using smaller trains at higher frequency. Nevertheless, the current platforms are narrower than would be ideal. The current reconstruction will add many new access points to the platforms, which will allow crowds to disperse quickly. Unfortunately, despite digging a vast cavern under the station, no effort was made to rearrange the columns supporting the tracks so that much wider platforms could be created. It may still be possible to shift tracks by cantilevering them from the existing columns, but that would require detailed engineering study. If not, some platforms could be widened through the removal of several tracks.
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urbantoronto-6247-20036.jpg


Basically, Metrolinx only started studying capacity costraints at Union after the revitalization was underway. Some of the options they study (e.g. additional tracks under Union) are rendered unfeasible by the work ongoing with the revitalisation:

usrc-track-study_undergroundopt1.jpg
 
If this is all true then this is absolutely scandalous and heads should be rolling. As hyway621 noted, the track work apparently has yet to be done which is why the 2025 date is always bounced around.

What I could never understand is why all 5 RER routes were only set to begin in 2025. 5 new lines, 200km of RER, and yet all opening at the same time? Never made sense but now it does...…...Union won`t be ready till then because they screwed the who station up. Just as they put parking garages ahead of service, Metrolinx has put shopping ahead of service. Obviously Tory must also know about this as he has pushed back SmartTracks to...……..you guessed it 2025. Upon reading all these posts about Union I had my doubts until 202 5 came up and now it makes perfect sense.

If this is all true then Ford would not just be justified but be forced to unceremoniously shut down Metrolinx and if it is found that there was open lying to the public and the government over spending, even criminal prosecutions may be in order. This is nothing short of horrid, grotesque, and obscene waste of taxpayer money and an affront to Torontonians. Move over Mirabel, your days as Canada`s poster child of expensive and poor planning are over.
 
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ssiguy2 said:
If this is all true then this is absolutely scandalous and heads should be rolling. As hyway621 noted, the track work apparently has yet to be done which is why the 2025 date is always bounced around.

What I could never understand is why all 5 RER routes were only set to begin in 2025. 5 new lines, 200km of RER, and yet all opening at the same time? Never made sense but now it does...…...Union won`t be ready till then because they screwed the who station up. Just as the put parking garages ahead of service, Metrolinx has put shopping ahead of service. Obviously Tory must also know about this as he has pushed back SmartTracks to...……..you guessed it 2025. Upon reading all these posts about Union I had my doubts until 202 5 came up and now it makes perfect sense.

If this is all true then Ford would not just be justified but be forced to unceremoniously shut down Metrolinx and if it is found that there was open lying to the public and the government over spending, even criminal prosecutions may be in order. This is nothing short of horrid, grotesque, and obscene waste of taxpayer money and an affront to Torontonians.

Toronto`s total domination over once powerful Montreal will finally be complete...……….Union will have taken over Mirabel as the nation`s most obscene waste of infrastructure funds purely for political gain.
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Because they won't all open at once. electrification will largely go into operation in 2025.. but service will ramp up until then. There are rumours swirling that we will see 15 minute diesel service on the Lakeshore lines before the end of this year..

Also, lol.

Union is in fine shape. Merging a few platforms will simply involve closing a few tracks. Union arguably has too many already.

The new southernmost platform and existing platform 24/25/26 are up to modern width standards - and will handle the Lakeshore line services. That is 4 tracks serviced by full size platforms right there. Combine another couple to provide wide platforms and you get even more space and track room with modern platform widths. Eliminating every other track could result in a 10 track station (plenty), all with super wide platforms.
 
innsertnamehere said:
Because they won't all open at once. electrification will largely go into operation in 2025.. but service will ramp up until then. There are rumours swirling that we will see 15 minute diesel service on the Lakeshore lines before the end of this year.
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I'm familiar with these rumours pre-Ford. Is this still an expectation?

I expected Doug to follow through on most of the capital plans but will be very pleasantly surprised if he follows through on the pieces requiring even temporary increases in GO operations subsidy.
 
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