Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

micheal_can said:
The link you provided states that they have not even made a decision as to Subway or LRT. So, what vehicle will they use? The current Rockets? The Flexies? Something else? We don't know. So, ffor people to talk about the different vehicles, their pros and cons, is a great thing to discuss, but it is also fantasy. We have a fairly good idea it wont be a GO Train, but not much else.
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FWIW, I don't consider the minutiae around likely vehicle types "fantasy". Fantasies is when someone insist that this will be RER when there is no evidence it is contemplated as such.

AoD
 
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micheal_can said:
The link you provided states that they have not even made a decision as to Subway or LRT. So, what vehicle will they use? The current Rockets? The Flexies? Something else? We don't know. So, ffor people to talk about the different vehicles, their pros and cons, is a great thing to discuss, but it is also fantasy. We have a fairly good idea it wont be a GO Train, but not much else.
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So I guess all this arguing leads to this explanation:
Everyone is more or less accepting of decisions written in pencil or neurons.
While you, @micheal_can , want decisions that are written in stone.
 
Are there any online docs from the 1980s DRL plan? The current planning exercise shouldn't be starting from 0, I would imagine they'd base something in the current design on the Network 2011 plan.
 
micheal_can said:
Stone no. But right now, it isn't even written in Jello.
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You are correct in identifying that building the DRL is not a line item on a budget somewhere. As alluded in the posts above, building a subway takes a wee bit of planning. The quotes below are from the TTC's website. With years of planning and civic consultation and more than $150M invested the DRL is more than just a fantasy.


https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co..._and_Design_for_the_Relief_Line_and_Yonge.pdf.

"As a result, this report recommends City Council approve a Carlaw alignment for the local segment of the Relief Line South in order for staff to complete the Environmental Assessment (EA)/Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP). Finalizing the project concept and moving to complete the EA/TPAP process is a significant milestone in advancing this important project. REPORT FOR ACTION Advancing Planning and Design for the Relief Line and Yonge Subway Extension A-2 The next phase of work for the Relief Line South is to accelerate the planning and design, including developing a project budget and schedule (Class 3 cost estimate), which is approximately 15 to 30% design. This report recommends the City and TTC in partnership with Metrolinx advance work on the Relief Line South and report back to City Council at the next decision gate for the project which includes a Class 3 cost estimate and schedule in 2019 ."


"The City has allocated $55.52 million over 2017-18 in the City’s 10-year Capital Budget and Plan for Relief Line. In June 2016, the Province committed $150 million to Metrolinx to work with the City and TTC to advance planning and design of the Relief Line."
 
jaybe said:
You are correct in identifying that building the DRL is not a line item on a budget somewhere. As alluded in the posts above, building a subway takes a wee bit of planning. The quotes below are from the TTC's website. With years of planning and civic consultation and more than $150M invested the DRL is more than just a fantasy.


https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Co..._and_Design_for_the_Relief_Line_and_Yonge.pdf.

"As a result, this report recommends City Council approve a Carlaw alignment for the local segment of the Relief Line South in order for staff to complete the Environmental Assessment (EA)/Transit Project Assessment Process (TPAP). Finalizing the project concept and moving to complete the EA/TPAP process is a significant milestone in advancing this important project. REPORT FOR ACTION Advancing Planning and Design for the Relief Line and Yonge Subway Extension A-2 The next phase of work for the Relief Line South is to accelerate the planning and design, including developing a project budget and schedule (Class 3 cost estimate), which is approximately 15 to 30% design. This report recommends the City and TTC in partnership with Metrolinx advance work on the Relief Line South and report back to City Council at the next decision gate for the project which includes a Class 3 cost estimate and schedule in 2019 ."


"The City has allocated $55.52 million over 2017-18 in the City’s 10-year Capital Budget and Plan for Relief Line. In June 2016, the Province committed $150 million to Metrolinx to work with the City and TTC to advance planning and design of the Relief Line."
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The graph on the bottom of page 12(A9) is what I am looking for.
 
Kyle Campbell said:
Are there any online docs from the 1980s DRL plan? The current planning exercise shouldn't be starting from 0, I would imagine they'd base something in the current design on the Network 2011 plan.
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There is no primary material available online - it's mainly secondhand report on Transit Toronto and Ed Levy's book. Some of us have posted chunks of the report on the forum though.

AoD
 
TheTigerMaster said:
This would create capacity troubles on Line 2 west of Pape Station, since only have the trains would be serving that part of the line.
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Not necessarily, since the current Pape could also operate as a turnback terminal for half Line 2 trains west of there, with the other half continuing on to Kennedy. Would require a new crossover east of the station, small potatoes compared with building a wye. In this instance though any capacity issues would be with a northern RL extension beyond Danforth (since half RL trains would go to Kennedy). Sort of a dealbreaker.

I sketched out how I think an interline wye could look, at least what I think is the only optimal method. Benefit is that it offers the opportunity for a seamless ride downtown from the east, which is arguably what should've been built 70yrs ago. Drawbacks are that it may be difficult to operate, the four services/"lines" could be confusing for riders, and the new N-S platform would have to be quite far from the current E-W station. Naturally should be in the fantasy thread. However I've yet to see any official plan of an RL yard, or if using Greenwood how they plan to connect Line 2 and RL.Since one of those arcs could be how they do it, I'll post here.

Line2-RL-interline-wye.png
 

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So because millions of dollars have been spent on studying the RL means it will be built? Did that logic apply for the Sheppard East LRT, Scarborough LRT, or Malvern LRT, none of which have been or will be built in the foreseeable future?

Once again, based on this track record, one can understand if some are skeptical our vaunted elected officials will ever do the right thing and build this, most desperately needed transit line.
 
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