Towered
Superstar
I agree, Dufferin is not nearly far west enough for the DRL. It needs its own separate rapid transit line.
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I agree, Dufferin is not nearly far west enough for the DRL. It needs its own separate rapid transit line.
denfromoakvillemilton
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I could try to see the city pull something and do this given the history of transit development. They'll say UPX is in the corridor. The real answer to that is to use Parkside Drive and Keele Station. Which gives you a straight shot to Mt Dennis.
Steve X
Senior Member
If the city does figure out a way to fund future transit, maybe a branch of the DRL can head up Dufferin to Eglinton/Fairbank Station. The other branch would continue westward to Roncesvalles and up to Dundas West Station.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
The Keele alignment really does offer the most benefit.
- Avoids service redundancy between Queen and St Clair, by not routing through the Georgetown corridor
- Opens up a gateway to Swansea and southern Etobicoke via what I'd envision would be a massive intermodal station (bus, streetcar, subway, commuter GO train) at Roncesvalles, which also connects to the hospital
- Easiest path to get from Queen to Bloor via High Park versus disrupting streetcar service along Roncy
- Shallow interchange at Bloor that could easily integrate with the mezzanine level of the existing station, western end of the station could be fitted with dual high-speed elevators per platform for easily transferring between lines.
- Best location to service the Junction with a stop. If Dupont/Dundas is chosen, it's a very pedestrian unsafe area by contrast.
- Massive TOD potential at Keele and St Clair (some of this is already occurring)
To illustrate what could be the end game for the DRL, I present the following:
The Trethewey Stn would help alleviate the Jane bus in a big way whisking passengers downtown way before hitting Bloor, or even the Crosstown. And whatever is built along Highway 27 likely has to be grade-separated anyway, so why not an elevated subway via the Weston-Galt and Hwy 27 to meet the Finch West LRT at Humber College? The run time from Humber College to City Centre would likely be only 25 minutes versus the 1 hour time frame it takes today. Just a thought.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Really great idea. However my preference remains for the Relief Line to remain under Jane Street (via Weston Road and Keele, as you suggested). I expect it would have a lot higher ridership there than any other potential alignment I've seen. I don't think Humber will have subway-level demand anytime soon.
Your post now has me realizing that Keele Station is elevated. Really surprised I never noticed that before.
Your post now has me realizing that Keele Station is elevated. Really surprised I never noticed that before.
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Kitsune
Senior Member
... I want to see it run to Jane station with a Station around Kingsway /Queensway to serve all those high rises in the Humber area. The line could run at grade past Glendale to around Ellis. And for the pie in the sky scenario - run it up to Jane and turn it at Eglinton to service the airport. Dundas West is going to have the way quicker transfer to RER to get downtown.
Rainforest
Senior Member
The Keele alignment really does offer the most benefit.
- Avoids service redundancy between Queen and St Clair, by not routing through the Georgetown corridor
- Opens up a gateway to Swansea and southern Etobicoke via what I'd envision would be a massive intermodal station (bus, streetcar, subway, commuter GO train) at Roncesvalles, which also connects to the hospital
- Easiest path to get from Queen to Bloor via High Park versus disrupting streetcar service along Roncy
- Shallow interchange at Bloor that could easily integrate with the mezzanine level of the existing station, western end of the station could be fitted with dual high-speed elevators per platform for easily transferring between lines.
- Best location to service the Junction with a stop. If Dupont/Dundas is chosen, it's a very pedestrian unsafe area by contrast.
- Massive TOD potential at Keele and St Clair (some of this is already occurring)
To illustrate what could be the end game for the DRL, I present the following:
The Trethewey Stn would help alleviate the Jane bus in a big way whisking passengers downtown way before hitting Bloor, or even the Crosstown. And whatever is built along Highway 27 likely has to be grade-separated anyway, so why not an elevated subway via the Weston-Galt and Hwy 27 to meet the Finch West LRT at Humber College? The run time from Humber College to City Centre would likely be only 25 minutes versus the 1 hour time frame it takes today. Just a thought.
Any routing of "DRL West Long" will be well used, as long as it has interchanges with all major surface routes. In that sense, your proposal is reasonable.
I have two concerns with this particular routing: 1) very low demand on Keele south of Bloor, compared to Dufferin; 2) you placed the line in the Brampton - Georgetown GO corridor from north of St Clair, but I doubt that there is any room left there after the recent round of GO track expansion.
However, you are right about the benefits of building the interchange between the DRL West and Bloor lines at Kele.
crs1026
Superstar
By the time it is built, there will be Crosstown West and Finch West to feed to this line. The Keele to Jane/Weston to Jane North makes most sense to me.
I disagree that Jane/Bloor needs another subway. It's an area where development pressure is already too great. No big problem for people wishing to transfer to ride the three extra stops to Keele - that will get them where they are going just as well.
- Paul
I disagree that Jane/Bloor needs another subway. It's an area where development pressure is already too great. No big problem for people wishing to transfer to ride the three extra stops to Keele - that will get them where they are going just as well.
- Paul
Johnny Au
Superstar
There's one problem with the alignment: it would be very close to an aquifer. There's a reason why Spring Road in High Park is called such.The Keele alignment really does offer the most benefit.
- Avoids service redundancy between Queen and St Clair, by not routing through the Georgetown corridor
- Opens up a gateway to Swansea and southern Etobicoke via what I'd envision would be a massive intermodal station (bus, streetcar, subway, commuter GO train) at Roncesvalles, which also connects to the hospital
- Easiest path to get from Queen to Bloor via High Park versus disrupting streetcar service along Roncy
- Shallow interchange at Bloor that could easily integrate with the mezzanine level of the existing station, western end of the station could be fitted with dual high-speed elevators per platform for easily transferring between lines.
- Best location to service the Junction with a stop. If Dupont/Dundas is chosen, it's a very pedestrian unsafe area by contrast.
- Massive TOD potential at Keele and St Clair (some of this is already occurring)
To illustrate what could be the end game for the DRL, I present the following:
The Trethewey Stn would help alleviate the Jane bus in a big way whisking passengers downtown way before hitting Bloor, or even the Crosstown. And whatever is built along Highway 27 likely has to be grade-separated anyway, so why not an elevated subway via the Weston-Galt and Hwy 27 to meet the Finch West LRT at Humber College? The run time from Humber College to City Centre would likely be only 25 minutes versus the 1 hour time frame it takes today. Just a thought.
denfromoakvillemilton
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Pretty nice! This would be perfect and would evenly space out the demand.The Keele alignment really does offer the most benefit.
- Avoids service redundancy between Queen and St Clair, by not routing through the Georgetown corridor
- Opens up a gateway to Swansea and southern Etobicoke via what I'd envision would be a massive intermodal station (bus, streetcar, subway, commuter GO train) at Roncesvalles, which also connects to the hospital
- Easiest path to get from Queen to Bloor via High Park versus disrupting streetcar service along Roncy
- Shallow interchange at Bloor that could easily integrate with the mezzanine level of the existing station, western end of the station could be fitted with dual high-speed elevators per platform for easily transferring between lines.
- Best location to service the Junction with a stop. If Dupont/Dundas is chosen, it's a very pedestrian unsafe area by contrast.
- Massive TOD potential at Keele and St Clair (some of this is already occurring)
To illustrate what could be the end game for the DRL, I present the following:
The Trethewey Stn would help alleviate the Jane bus in a big way whisking passengers downtown way before hitting Bloor, or even the Crosstown. And whatever is built along Highway 27 likely has to be grade-separated anyway, so why not an elevated subway via the Weston-Galt and Hwy 27 to meet the Finch West LRT at Humber College? The run time from Humber College to City Centre would likely be only 25 minutes versus the 1 hour time frame it takes today. Just a thought.
I do think Jane street would be too far. But the kingsway idea sounds interesting? Is there ridership potential over there?
Dufferin is too close to university. I think the line will stay on Keele until rogers and then veer west when planned, as to not interrupt the UPX, like on the map, I don't think that would be as disruptive as using the entire rail corridor from Roncesvalles or Dufferin. I think the line is more relief for the Weston and Jane bus lines, plus Keele is the last busy station on the route, as the demand starts dropping from Dundas West.
Exactly.
Seems tough to build the subway without the water being affected then.
My second issue is this. While I prefer Keele, Dundas West allows for the transfer to UPX faster then doing it at Mt Dennis. What do you guys think, is that a fair argument for Dundas West, the inter modal station being built?
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
It is an argument, but it is not as if the UPX, GO and Dundas West are that well connected. Major work would need to be done to smooth the transfer process. (I say as someone who got off the UXP at Dundas West and vowed to never again.)
Avenue
Active Member
Keele Station - Parkside Drive alignment (hence no stations between Bloor and Queen) basically completely ignores/neglects so-called downtown neighbourhoods and falls into trap of conceiving subway as something merely connects suburbs to downtown core.
denfromoakvillemilton
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Yup, I can see this. I mean in the GO construction thread they have spent 3 pages talking about the bridge connecting the bloor station, subway and upx, that needs to be fixed.
They can put a station at Roncesvalles near St Josephs hospital.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
The DRL alignment I've outlined allows for GO interchanges at Queen-Dufferin, St Clair-Keele and Mt Dennis; not to mention Weston and Etobicoke North. There's little need to also consolidate everything into the Bloor Line interchange with an intermodal link as well.
It should be noted that any potential DRL link at Dundas West Stn would have to be tunneled super-deep (~4 storeys below the surface) as that stop is already quite a ways from the surface, making it an inconvenient transfer point for most. It also brings up the question of alignment, underneath Bloor-Dundas or below the GO station, and the continued opposition to an easternly exit by the property owners of the Crossways Mall.
Keele/Parkside alignment avoids all this contention.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
What exactly is it neglecting? A 2 km apart stop spacing is actually pretty commonplace in the TTC (Victoria Park - Warden, Warden - Kennedy, St Clair West - Eglinton West, Wilson - Downsview, Yonge Line north of Eglinton)
If the Line were to follow Roncesvalles, only a station at Howard Park Blvd would likely be built in-between Queen and Bloor, but that would come at the lost of the 6 other surface stops along the corridor en route. The Parkside alignment preserves streetcar service along Roncy, which is a net win. 80 Queensway, especially along Parkside Dr is sparsely used and thus if service were suspended during construction it would not have as much of an impact.
You also have to consider the gentler curvature of getting the Line to transition from east-west to north-south a Parkside alignment permits. The DRL would actually have to go past Roncesvalles then do a 180 degree turn radii around the streetcar barns to veer back to align with Roncesvalles fi that alignment were chosen. By contrast, west of Glendale, the Queensway gradually swings northwards and the DRL can follow this trajectory onto Parkside.