Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Zach6668]

I question why they couldn't have started the above ground portions in the far East and West portions of the line while they've been tunnelling? Certainly that ship has sailed but if the extensions are approved I would hope we can attempt to be efficient enough to have multiple contracts going at the same time.

Well, for one, it's still being designed.

Secondly, there's no point. It's not like the underground stations are going to be complete, sitting empty for months or years while they work on the at-grade segments. There's no point in starting the construction yet. It won't take all that long to build.

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Well, for one, it's still being designed.

Secondly, there's no point. It's not like the underground stations are going to be complete, sitting empty for months or years while they work on the at-grade segments. There's no point in starting the construction yet. It won't take all that long to build.

That would be like finishing the landscaping of a house and paving the driveway, when they only just finished pouring the foundation (no framing).

 

[OneCity]

That would be like finishing the landscaping of a house and paving the driveway, when they only just finished pouring the foundation (no framing).

Not even close with that analogy. It more like building 2 houses but instead of building both at once you only build one at a time

Valid point by Zach6668 as its still being designed which is my greater concern that it leaves Political room to be delayed on details

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

So anything west of Yonge is considered the west side but you can't be serious to say this

Not really sure what you mean.

 

[salsa]

I question why they couldn't have started the above ground portions in the far East and West portions of the line while they've been tunnelling? Certainly that ship has sailed but if the extensions are approved I would hope we can attempt to be efficient enough to have multiple contracts going at the same time.

The east extension was supposed to be funded with the savings from watering down the previous 3-stop subway plan. But just one year later, the cost has gone up so much that the subway is on track to consume the entire budget for Scarborough transit. Meanwhile the mayor has other priorities like SmartTrack, Gardiner and RL, so at this point Crosstown East is about as likely to happen as Rail Deck Park.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The east extension was supposed to be funded with the savings from watering down the previous 3-stop subway plan. But just one year later, the cost has gone up so much that the subway is on track to consume the entire budget for Scarborough transit. Meanwhile the mayor has other priorities like SmartTrack, Gardiner and RL, so at this point Crosstown East is about as likely to happen as Rail Deck Park.

My understanding is that most of the "cost increases" have largely come from accounting changes, not real expenditure changes. The original cost quotes were done in unescalated dollars, while the new one is escalated, which makes it seem more expensive, but in reality its the same.

 

[salsa]

My understanding is that most of the "cost increases" have largely come from accounting changes, not real expenditure changes. The original cost quotes were done in unescalated dollars, while the new one is escalated, which makes it seem more expensive, but in reality its the same.

But does the available funding increase to account for that escalation in cost?

 

[Voltz]

My understanding is that most of the "cost increases" have largely come from accounting changes, not real expenditure changes. The original cost quotes were done in unescalated dollars, while the new one is escalated, which makes it seem more expensive, but in reality its the same.

I've never heard that, where was it mentioned?

 

[innsertnamehere]

But does the available funding increase to account for that escalation in cost?

yes. The Province listed the Crosstown LRT as $4.9 billion in 2010 dollars, but the actual contract signed was closer to $7 billion IIRC.

Its the same reason its not fair to compare the $3.2 billion cost to the $1.5 billion cost for the LRT option, as the LRT price tag is not escalated. The TTC published an estimated escalated cost of the LRT, and it was something like $2.5 billion. Supporters of the LRT called it bullcrap of course, refusing to believe those numbers. Apparently the LRT is immune from cost changes but the subway is possible to see infinite increases into the trillions.

Its why the original pricetag on the subway was so low, as it was in 2010 unescalated dollars for councillors to compare between the two projects. They switched to escalated dollars after the vote as that is how it is normally financed. TorStar with its vendetta against the project just ran with it making it seem like a huge cost escalation, while the truth was that it was really just an accounting change.

There has been a small "real" increase in costs, from $2.9 billion escalated to $3.2 billion escalated. There was an initial jump from $2 billion to $2.9 billion, which was the accounting change, then it went to $3.2 billion, which was a "real" cost overrun.

Besides, costing changes are expected at that stage as the cost estimates were extremely preliminary in those original decisions.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I've never heard that, where was it mentioned?

in the staff reports at the time, I'm too lazy to go find them again.

 

[Palma]

yes. The Province listed the Crosstown LRT as $4.9 billion in 2010 dollars, but the actual contract signed was closer to $7 billion IIRC.

Its the same reason its not fair to compare the $3.2 billion cost to the $1.5 billion cost for the LRT option, as the LRT price tag is not escalated. The TTC published an estimated escalated cost of the LRT, and it was something like $2.5 billion. Supporters of the LRT called it bullcrap of course, refusing to believe those numbers. Apparently the LRT is immune from cost changes but the subway is possible to see infinite increases into the trillions.

Its why the original pricetag on the subway was so low, as it was in 2010 unescalated dollars for councillors to compare between the two projects. They switched to escalated dollars after the vote as that is how it is normally financed. TorStar with its vendetta against the project just ran with it making it seem like a huge cost escalation, while the truth was that it was really just an accounting change.

There has been a small "real" increase in costs, from $2.9 billion escalated to $3.2 billion escalated. There was an initial jump from $2 billion to $2.9 billion, which was the accounting change, then it went to $3.2 billion, which was a "real" cost overrun.

Besides, costing changes are expected at that stage as the cost estimates were extremely preliminary in those original decisions.

how stupid does one need to be to believe that an LRT would cost the same as a subway!

 

[innsertnamehere]

when the subway is 40% shorter and has 1/7th the stations, and is actually $700 million more, yea, I believe it.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Well, for one, it's still being designed.

Secondly, there's no point. It's not like the underground stations are going to be complete, sitting empty for months or years while they work on the at-grade segments. There's no point in starting the construction yet. It won't take all that long to build.

Don't agree. This is the problem with Toronto. All this should have been under construction by now.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Do the above ground stops have paved tracks? If yes, then could buses use those sections? I feel like it should have that functionally as emergency vehicles could use the ROW.

Is it a possibility for the project team to "forget" about the surface portion and delay the project? Resulting in increased costs.

 

[OneCity]

The east extension was supposed to be funded with the savings from watering down the previous 3-stop subway plan. But just one year later, the cost has gone up so much that the subway is on track to consume the entire budget for Scarborough transit. Meanwhile the mayor has other priorities like SmartTrack, Gardiner and RL, so at this point Crosstown East is about as likely to happen as Rail Deck Park.

I was referring to the above ground East and West portions of the current funded line and why they couldn't be working on them simultaneously with the central underground portions

But in regards to your concern.. I think the real issue is Scarborough like many other area of the City deserve a more appropriate budget.