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Wilshire on the Green Condos (Norstar Group) - Real Estate -

Nels_TO, I understand & agree with what you meant. Thank you for explaining. It is a huge difference with other projects, as you pointed out!

Maybe Norstar tried to fool us with incredibly low fees (that we knew were going to go up), but it looks like they'll go up more than we expected.
 
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Hey guys I spoke to Ellie and another norstar worker ( there office is on ground floor in the room that says storage where the tb is) and they said next week(Bc it's raining this week)that norstar themselfs are gonna fix up the balconies that were reported with problems,and as for a smooth surface they said no as u can easily slip if it's smooth and wet, anyone else have a bad balcony?

I'm happy but worried they may screw up,but what can I do.also waiting for Hardwood flooring guys to repair a few stuff,they did fix all my 30 day issues but these are new ones,anyone know what those workers in the p1 are doing in the room near the fans and looks like there painting p1 again, we need where the elevators are repainted again and the stairwell cleaned up.

Anyone else talked to that new guy in the storage room?
 
Nels_TO, I understand & agree with what you meant. Thank you for explaining. It is a huge difference with other projects, as you pointed out!

Maybe Norstar tried to fool us with incredibly low fees (that we knew were going to go up), but it looks like they'll go up more than we expected.

I agree - a major "hook" in their marketing was the deceptively low maintenance fee. I thought to myself, hmm, it'll likely go up 50% within a couple of years of ownership, which still would make the fees quite reasonable in comparison with other projects, therefore I had already built-in the future cost into our budget. I'd noticed that when the Mattamy condos on Warden Ave. was completed back in 2009, that their fees hovered around $250/month for a 2 bdrm/2bath unit. I recently saw on the MLS that similar units are now paying about $350/mnth, so this is the type of increase that I would be expecting in another year or two for our condo. If less, all the better :)

As others have posted, a major cost concern will be the unknown development charges upon closing. Will all remaining repairs (garage leaks, paint, rooftop, stairwells, etc) be simply added to the final total and divided amongst us all? We'll find out in due time, I guess. Fingers crossed!

OEW, Ely and his Norstar co-worker came to our unit on a couple of occasions to make sure our 30-day list was taken care of. He was quite professional, and did mention his "crew" on several occasions. I did not know he was on-site, however.
 
Hey guys I saw Tony on site today and he was in the parking lot with some workers and he was pointing in different areas of the the lot, make what you want of this, but it seems our presure may be doing something,
 
I find it really amusing that based on 190-something units there are maybe 10 to 11 people posting on here complaining - that doesn't seem like a big percentage of the people being unsatisfied or unhappy. I think that maybe the only people complaining are those that didn't get something they wanted and are just disgruntled - as angry pointed out she wanted to get rid of her unit and the builder would not agree - sad
 
I find it really amusing that based on 190-something units there are maybe 10 to 11 people posting on here complaining - that doesn't seem like a big percentage of the people being unsatisfied or unhappy. I think that maybe the only people complaining are those that didn't get something they wanted and are just disgruntled - as angry pointed out she wanted to get rid of her unit and the builder would not agree - sad

Actually, 10-11 people posting on this particular site is quite a large percentage in my opinion. Angry may have been on one side of the spectrum, but you appear to be in the complete opposite. For comparison, my condo has 550 suites (two towers) and I'd say that about 2-3 people post here, me being the only regular one.
 
I find it really amusing that based on 190-something units there are maybe 10 to 11 people posting on here complaining - that doesn't seem like a big percentage of the people being unsatisfied or unhappy. I think that maybe the only people complaining are those that didn't get something they wanted and are just disgruntled - as angry pointed out she wanted to get rid of her unit and the builder would not agree - sad

The point is, we all see the state of the common areas and everyone in this forum except you and 1 or 2 others has noted multiple deficiencies in their own units; shoddy work, poor materials, broken heating/AC units, leaking windows/balconies, etc..

It is funny that for 2 years almost every single post out of hundreds and hundreds has been negative; then Angry decides a lawsuit is in order - bang 3 supporters of Norstar emerge from the woodwork.

How many owners/tenants even know about this forum? How many have bothered to access it? How many have read the forum, but not left comments? I think the number of disgruntled posters speaks volumes about Norstar.
 
I owned a unit at 33 Harbour Square - Bay & Queens Quay. That building is over 30 years old and it was immaculate!!! 24 hours security...clean, well maintained...then wemoved to Forest Hilll - we intended to sell this unit and you can do so by assignment sale - they refused! They also told us we couldnt rent or lease...so we had to move here...this is the worse building i have ever seen constructed! I have pictures that will shock many people...and for all the idiots out here who think this is acceptable...it is not! We were promised certain things IN WRITING and they did not deliver on any of it! They used substandard materials (many believe recycled!) and cut many corners! They promised 24 hour security -and there is no one on site after 4. And no one on site on the weekends! Even in a rental you have someone on site 24/7! They have one cleaner who leaves at 1 - what the hell? There is no unit for a full time manager as they were going to leave a unit for a manager and elected to sell it! As for the people who say Tarion is here to "protect us" - what a bunch of shit! They will NOT come out to look at deficiencies unless you pay a deposit of 282.50! Then they come and if they dont find any outstanding deficiences they keep your deposit! If they find any outstanding deficiencies - they provider with an additional 30 days to fix them - thats 5 months of living in a shit hole - because that is how the built most of our units! They cut corners and got this building up fast so they can get us in here to start collecting rent -we haev several areas in this building where there are leaks!!! Huge holes in the ceilings! They are doing nothing about it! This has nothing to do about being a FIRST TIME BUYER...it has to do with failure to deliver on promises! They didnt even clean our units or balconies before occupancy - which they are supposed to do!!! They didnt sand or smooth it out because they knew it would take time and cost money and a delay in occupying! Worst company I have ever dealt with!

Angry,

Let me first say that I am NOT one of the IDIOT buyers you referred to, nor am I associated in any way with Norstar.

Let me address the following issues that you have raised:

Balcony/Terrace: You mentioned that you spent $1K on tiles of your balcony/terrace and had them installed. Well, you can't do that!!! Shame on you! The balcony, as I understand it, is an exclusive use common element. Hence, you cannot modify without the condominium's approval. Also, you mentioned that the builder did not smooth the balcony floor. Well, this is not a good idea! you have kids, right?

Deficiencies: I have had many fights with Norstar re my long list of deficiencies. However, here is the kicker. Builders like Tridel have fewer deficiencies. If you are risk averse, then you should have gone with Tridel, for example. By accepting a less reputable builder like Norstar, I am not saying that you should accept sub-standard quality. What I'm saying is that the list of deficiencies will be higher and the time required to fix them will be longer.

As unit holders, we have had to submit our 30 day list and will be required to submit our 1 yr and 7 yr lists. Once the condo gets registered, the board will also have to prepare and submit a list of deficiencies related to the common elements. I do agree that there are many items that are still outstanding, such as the stairwell issues, etc. I do also agree that it is a long drawn out process, but you cannot replace process with a class action lawsuit. Hey, I would appreciate a more timely process; however, this is the industry standard that is allowed by our good friends at City Hall. So, you are barking up the wrong tree. Businesses are going to take all the rope that they are allowed. Hey, I have been upset at many of these unfair deals afforded property developers too. For example, property developers are allowed to change their city-approved plans substantially without going back to City Hall for reapproval, as Norstar has done with some of the items that were promised to us. Shocking but true!!!! I have written my councillor about these practices and I would recommend that you do the same. However, you cannot use a class-action lawsuit to circumvent the process. I would love to stick it to Norstar too, but I am a logical guy and I like to think about the probability of success before jumping into something.

The point is that Norstar still has time to fix the issues that plague us. I think it should be all fixed by now, but the fact is that legally, they still have time!! In the end, upon expiry of the process, if Norstar doesn't pull its weight, then I'll be in full support of a class action lawsuit.

Security system: It was clear to me, after reading the purchase documents and clarifying with the sales reps, that a security guard was not part of the package. The development was sold as a no frills project, hence the lower-than-average condo fees. For someone in the legal field, I am very surprised that you assumed that we were getting a security guard. Legal professionals NEVER assume anything; they read carefully and ask for clarity!!!!!!

Personal gain: I am curious as to the goal of this class-action lawsuit. You seem to be very ANGRY at the way you were treated by Norstar. I am also curious about the fees that you'll be gaining for your law firm. My understanding of these type of suits is that the lawyer usually receives 33 percent plus costs for all settlements. Please clarify what percentage your law firm will be entitled to and whether you will be receiving any special payments such as commission for finder fees, etc. After all, you would be generating a lot of revenues for your employer and I would expect you to benefit in some way. Please state precisely how you and your employer will be compensation.
 
We have been aware of this blog since its inception and have been monitoring it. We have noticed a number of recurring comments/concerns we want to address and clarify as follows:

24-hour security

Neither the Declaration nor the Agreement of Purchase and Sale provides for 24-hour security. In addition, residents are not paying towards 24-hour security through their common expense fees (line item in budget (attached to Declaration) does not indicate 24-hour security). The security cameras can be viewed on your TV on channel #56 or #58. Once registered, if the condominium board decides to pay for 24-Hour Security, they can do so, which will increase common element fees.

Property Management Office Hours

Property Management hours are 10:00am – 6:00pm Mon-Fri. If door is closed – please knock. Valerie puts up a notice if she is not in the office, but elsewhere in the building.

Leak(s) in Stairwells and Underground Garage

There was one leak in the stairwell due to a missing door sweep on the door from the roof which was fixed the next day when Norstar became aware of it. We also put a low curb for additional protection against water build up.

There is one leak in the underground parking garage that is being addressed. There are no other leaks in the building.

Emergency Incidents

The first fire alarm incident in June was caused by an area-wide power outage, which triggered the emergency generator. When the permanent power was restored by the City, it created an unlikely power surge which was discovered the next day when no hot water and air conditioning was reported. It is important to note that Norstar crews did attend to this alarm immediately and silenced the fire alarm. While Norstar crews were on site, the Fire Department returned to attend to a fifth floor unit that had caused a fire in their unit causing the floor to be overtaken with smoke. The power surge created by the original outage caused the cooling tower to switch off, as well as blowing a fuse to the domestic hot water pump. Air conditioning was restored early on June 21st after the problem was reported. Hot water was restored around 8:00pm on June 21st.

Second Fire Alarm Incident in June was due to water penetration during an intense rain storm through a conduit which entered a smoke detector. This was addressed the next day as soon as Norstar was notified.

Property Management sent an emergency crew to site around 2:00am. Due to the fact it took Property Management over 2 hours to respond to the emergency situation, they did not fulfill their obligations in regards to the emergency number and emergency situation, in accordance with their management agreement, and this was one of the reasons for their replacement.

A letter was sent to all purchasers explaining the issues and apologizing for the inconvenience.

Fire Safety Plan

A Fire Safety Plan has been in place since the first occupancy, otherwise occupancy would not have been granted. The City inspected the building based on the same standards as any other condominium building in the City. During the construction period the building was inspected numerous times by City staff and independent consultants, as well as professional engineers and architects to ensure Code Compliance.

Emergency Exit from the Rooftop Patio

There is an emergency exit located in the south stairwell that you can gain access to the building without a key/FOB, etc.

Common Element Deficiencies

All common element (other than the interior of the residential units) issues will be addressed by Norstar. Norstar has hired an outside engineering company to do a pre-audit of the common elements, which it is working on at this time. This independent company will go through and verify the completion of any items. They will not be left for purchasers/condominium board to repair. In addition, once the building registers with the City of Toronto the condominium board will hire it own engineering company to carry out a technical audit of the common elements which will be submitted to both the builder and Tarion.

Norstar Staff On Site

There is a Norstar crew on-site all day, Monday to Friday working on warranty deficiencies/repairs.

Hallway Ventilation

As explained, the air in the hallways is positive pressure and units are negative pressure to keep any odors from permeating into hallways from units.

Hallways are not air conditioned during the summer, but are heated in the winter. All hallways are ventilated with fresh air from outside of the building.

Security Cameras

During construction, there was one (1) security camera that oversaw the entire site which was installed to deter/avoid construction materials from being stolen. This security camera was removed several months ago. Security cameras are currently in place in the common areas of the building (ie: gym, library, underground garage, lobby etc.). These cameras cannot see into the residents’ units or balconies.

Maintenance/Common Expense Fees

A list of what maintenance fee monies are used for is in the budget which is attached to the Disclosure Statement given to all purchasers.

Walkway on 7th floor

The walkway on the 7th floor is not uneven – it is sloped towards the drains, as per approved stormwater management plan and good construction practice.

Carpet in Corridors

Tiles have been installed on the 7th and 1st floors only due to these being high traffic areas – this is as per design. It is common practice to install carpet on residential corridors to minimize sound transmission.

Homeowner negligence - Homeowner’s need to take pride in their residence/building and not spill coffee, carry dripping garbage bags, etc. Norstar has had all carpets in the building, where necessary, repaired and professionally steam cleaned.

Underground Garage

The parking garage has been professionally power-swept.

Use of Gym Facilities/Equipment

Hours of operation have been posted. Homeowner fobs have been programmed to not allow entry into the gym after hours but the builder cannot control if Homeowner’s are abusing these rules or any of the equipment or remaining in the gym past the posted hours.

Structural Elements

The building has been built in accordance with the Ontario Building Code and inspected by numerous engineers and architects, including the City inspectors. No structural issues or damages have been identified or reported.

Elevators

Unfortunately, there was a malfunction with the equipment, which the Kone elevator company is working on rectifying. Kone Elevators is one of the foremost suppliers of elevators in Canada.

Doors to Building

Doors have been left open or propped open by homeowners for fast and easy access back into the building. The builder cannot police this type of action.

Building Materials

All materials are brand new and meet Ontario Building Code standards.

Stairwell Electrical

The stairwell outlets are covered in plastic from the rough in box used by the electricians.

Building Address Sign

This has already been installed.

Underground Parking Mirror

This has already been installed.

BBQ on Roof

The BBQ has been recently inspected by the Fire Department and mechanical engineers and no issues were reported. However, we have asked property management to put a system in place for use of the gas BBQ.

Declaration Contraventions

Notices have gone out to those homeowners who have breached certain provisions of the declaration dealing with common elements and have been given an opportunity to rectify the breach, failing which the Builder has stepped in to rectify the breach.

We hope this clarifies any misunderstandings in regards to the above items.
 
welcome to UT Norstar ... thanks for the point by point response

Hallway Ventilation

As explained, the air in the hallways is positive pressure and units are negative pressure to keep any odors from permeating into hallways from units.

Hallways are not air conditioned during the summer, but are heated in the winter. All hallways are ventilated with fresh air from outside of the building.

I'm quite suprised by the the above, no A/C in the hallway of an condominium? I would have expected this only in a older rental apartment. The fact there is positive pressure in the hallway (with no A/C), it will mean hotter air in the hallways will be constantly pushed into individual units (which would likely have their AC turned on in the summer)
 
I, too am shocked that there is no A/C in the hallway of a condominium. This is not normal practice, but perhaps what we can expect in a "no-frills", "low maintenance fee" condominium?
 
I have circulated a very detailed response to Norstar's letter - which was undated and unsigned - delivered on October 4, 2011, in response to my "recurring concerns and comments.
I would point out that their 5 page letter was not only misleading - but they downright lied and misled residents of this building. I dont owe you any explanation - I am trying to show the residents of this building how dishonest this Builder is - and I have done so. I have the evidence which will come to light in Court (and I hope you will be there to be a part of it). I do not have my letter at the moment - but will most certainly post a copy on Tuesday!
 
Response to Norstar representative

..I have been following this site as a non active participant for quite some time; perhaps a number of other home owners have been as well. I have now decided to sign in and bring forward some of my views.

Responding to the Norstar representative regarding the only water issue left to address (within the common areas) is the garage. I am sorry to say the garage is not the only one left to correct, although a colossal one. If not fixed properly within a timely manner salt from the above driveway will filter through the concrete and the concrete over time will deteriorate and crumble. The leaks will expand considerably making it unsafe and a very costly repair to the home owners.

When it rains around the cornice or donut surrounding the outside circumference of the party room every 3 to 4 feet, water runs off from the concrete ceiling to the floor exactly at the intersection of the glass panels above.

Outside the party room (south east side) when it rains water pools and creates a small pond; this eventually can create a leak to owners located on the 6th floor as water has a tendency to find a way to filter down ward.

A mechanical apparatus located @ level marked floor 8, stair B, water is visible since the unit is not sealed properly (perforation to the outside is visible).

Regarding doors- the library door (east side) does not close properly, currently wind blows through. With winter season soon upon us snow will get in and heat will escape causing our maintenance fees to increase to cover the additional charges.

The side door next to the front door- anyone can enter the building since it is unlocked; a solution would be having the door open only with a fob.

The last time a checked one of the doors from the garage entrance to the elevators does not close properly. Not sure is this door had been fixed yet.

Regarding the carpers – Everyone who has commented are correct in stating some owners and or renters are very sloppy and do not take pride of the place they call “homeâ€. Garbage, drinks, and leaving their children to run free and damage the property is something that can not be controlled at the present time. However, once the board of directors is formed, hopefully rules and regulations can be put in place.

Having said that, the present superintendant hired by Norstar is aware of some of these offenders and as part of their job since we all pay their salaries via maintenance fees should be to addressing these issues within a timely manner.

Large part of the soiled carpets fall under Norstar responsibility as the carpets (of very low quality I may add) were installed when construction was still going and all different types of trades were tramping through out the building/floors with dirty boots, construction tools, plants, wheelbarrows etc without much care (especially by the elevator entrances going up and down) doing their daily jobs. The carpets have since been cleaned however, due to extreme state of dirt that they were in, the stains are still very visible especially in front of the elevators and they need to be cleaned again till they are restored to a clean state. The lobby carpet runners are not very appealing either (the ends were glued down). They are fraying and falling apart while simultaneously an eye soar as they appear very messy given a very bad first impression when you enter the lobby.

The baseboards/wallpaper at the entrance (1st floor and 7th floor) as well as other floors, were damaged by the trade personnel bringing construction material, plants, dirt, wheel barrows etc. and they are in need of repair and paint.

Party room colums

In need of completion.

Norstar sales representative (Mike) used the “His and Hers†Sauna as a selling feature (although not stated in our purchase and sales agreement) and did not come to fruition. However, it was advertised again in an article by Mitch Markowitz, director of sales and marketing for Norstar (see add) as part of the amenities. I would like to know as well as the rest of the owners since the saunas are missing if:
1) Norstar is going to install them?
2) If this is not to feasible, what type of compensation are we going to receive?

If I may put forth a suggestion –tear out the sub standard carpet and replace all high traffic areas with tiles- mirror the entrance lobby i.e. in from of the elevators high traffic areas.

See advertisement from Norstar regarding amenities (steam baths)


ST. CLAIR AND WARDEN
Cutting out the 'fancy-schmancy' amenities
February 7, 2009
Comments on this story (0)
AMY BROWN-BOWERS
SPECIAL TO THE STAR


The name of Norstar's latest development, Wilshire On The Green, represents many of the condominium's selling points.
The seven-storey building contains environmentally friendly construction components, its external elevation is entirely of green-tinted glass, it's built on a ravine system and it is located directly on the Bloor-Danforth subway route.
Recently launched Phase 2 is comprised of the final 98 units in the building, which will be located northwest of St. Clair and Warden Aves. at 60 Fairfax Cres. Phase 1 includes 100 suites and was launched late spring 2008. Units range from one-bedrooms with about 530 square feet, to three-bedrooms with about 1,100 square feet and prices go from $169,900 to $350,000. Estimated occupancy for both phases is spring 2010.
"One of the keys to the success ... is the location," says Mitch Markowitz, director of sales and marketing for Norstar Development, adding, "We're the kind of builder that likes to build on the TTC with a bus at the door. And this, as Emeril Lagasse would say, kicked it up a notch because it's not just the bus, it's the subway."
The development was designed to fit aesthetically into the surrounding residential neighbourhood, hence the midrise elevation.
"We felt that we could have gotten zoned for 18 to 20 floors but the building wouldn't have fit nicely into the neighbourhood. Seven storeys is a nice fit," Markowitz says, adding, "The public who came in loved the look of the building – they loved that it wasn't a highrise."
Being located in a well-established community, "all the infrastructure is all there, the TTC is there, the churches, the schools, the shopping," Markowitz says, adding: "Everything is within a five-minute walk."
Also in the immediate area is a ravine system that extends south to the lake.
"This is one of the last bastions of green in Scarborough," Markowitz says. "There's a huge ravine just south of us and one can, if one wanted to, walk from there all the way to Lake Ontario," he adds.
Focus group research indicated that potential buyers were much more concerned with low maintenance fees than splashy amenities, hence the pared-down offerings, which will include: "a small but elegant lobby area," a party room, an exercise room and spa area with steam baths and change rooms for both men and women, and a landscaped rooftop terrace.
Cutting out "fancy-schmancy, splashy amenities" means maintenance fees will be about half of comparable projects at roughly 24 cents per square foot, Markowitz says. Unit features include imported ceramic tiles, oversized balconies, an in-suite entraphone system, and glass French dining room doors as per plans.
Toronto-Dominion Bank is offering buyers a 1 per cent discount off the standard posted mortgage and Norstar is offering a rebate equal to a 2 per cent discount on their mortgage. For a limited time, units will include a free underground parking spot and storage locker, granite countertops, flooring resembling hardwood in the living room and dining room, and stainless steel appliances.
For information, call 416-285-0555.
Toronto Star
EDITOR'S PICKS
 
Wow!!!!!! I'd like to meet you! As every one of your points were raised in my lawsuit! From the poor quaility of material used to the safety issues to the crumbling garage!!! I addressed many of these issues in my letter which I recently circulated!!! This building looks like a toronto housing complex than a condo and its down right insulting the letter they circulated as they lied and misled many owners and I called them out on it providig them with evidence that I'm unable to share on this site-the next day they removed their letter that was posted on the managers door (she's useless) and on the P1 level-they still haven't fixed the burnt out bulbs in elevator 2 and I know several ppl who have gotten stuck in elevator 2-they blame Kone-Norstar is responsible for us-not kone-tired of their lies-misrepresentations and excuses
 

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