sixrings
Senior Member
Disagreed. Sometimes you look back and realize what you done was a mistake. Not fixing the mistake is an even greater mistake. The allen is a road version of a similar Mistake.
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Which would you choose: Sheppard Subway Extension or Sheppard Crosstown LRT?
- Thread starter Prometheus The Supremo
- Start date
Disagreed. Sometimes you look back and realize what you done was a mistake. Not fixing the mistake is an even greater mistake. The allen is a road version of a similar Mistake.
nfitz
Superstar
Perhaps mitigating the mistake makes more financial sense than fixing it. Hence the LRT platform at Don Mills station would be just a short, flat, walk from the subway train.
Dan416
Senior Member
It depends on the situation. It's obvious to me the SRT was a mistake and should be replaced with subway. There's a reason why the people of Scarborough hate the SRT.
nfitz
Superstar
If the SRT used longer trains like the Vancouver Skytrain (with the more comfortable and brighter cars like the Vancouver Skytrain), and they actually had enough of them so that there were never line-ups, and they didn't have to climb 3 flights of stairs at Kennedy - then I don't think it would be despised in the same way.
Particularly once it is complete, and the train could go all the way from Sheppard to Kennedy and along Eglinton ...
Particularly once it is complete, and the train could go all the way from Sheppard to Kennedy and along Eglinton ...
Dan416
Senior Member
There's a lot of "ifs" in that statement. The problem is they determined they didn't want to go to the trouble of going to the Mark II trains. And they would still have to shut it down to replace it with LRT. Subway is the only way to get around taking it out of service for a long period of time. I'm sure they can run it into the ground if they know a subway is being built at the same time.
Voltz
Senior Member
All of those "ifs" are covered by the current plan.
ItsTehBean
New Member
Some questions: is centre road median ROW would have:
- transit signal priority?
- at least 1/3 of the line avoids surface traffic? Does this LRT stop frequently at traffic lights?
- utilize four or more car in a single train? Not necessary but high frequency (5~10 minutes) for most of the day is must.
Through my experience this defines whether this defines as a good "LRT" or a glorified streetcar.
BTW, I voted SCLRT, because of the financial and political situation we are at. Otherwise it is no brainer to go for extending Shep Subway Line.
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nfitz
Superstar
It's the only option that has been considered.
But what if TTC was to put out an RFP for vehicles that could operate on the existing line without modification?
The platforms themselves could be simply lengthened somewhat without closure. This has been done in other cities.
I'm sure the cost of such vehicles would be higher than off-the-shelf Mark II vehicles, however it would be far cheaper than any other option.
You could even proceed with the new underground platform with only very short closures when you connect the new track in.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I really don't like the transfer at a end of the line station which is basically in the middle of nowhere onto a slow moving vehicle that stops at a number of stops that have hardly any passengers before arriving at somewhere worth going. It is a complete hassle and adds significant time to the journey. There can't be very many people that get off at Kennedy and don't take connecting routes. The SRT is the worst of both worlds... it doesn't run on a street and create an urban oasis and it is less direct than a subway. It runs next to a railway line in a semi-industrial area with not much density to create ridership. If the SRT was part of the Eglinton line it would be far more useful.
nfitz
Superstar
Slow moving vehicle? The SRT accelerates faster than the subway, and runs faster. The average stop spacing on the SRT is further apart than on the Danforth subway - with only Midland and Ellesmere being close together ... along with McCowan at the end of the line.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Really? That seems so hard to believe when making the trip. I have only made the trip a few times but every time I do I feel the SRT is a bit like an airport link train slowly moving through the middle of nowhere and the stop at Midland is a complete waste. Maybe the fact the area is so empty gives it the slow perception of speed. It isn't a great user experience, that much is for sure.
nfitz
Superstar
Midland (or Ellesemere) is indeed a waste. Ellesmere is particularly silly, as it's difficult to get from the Ellesemere bus to the station (all that money spent, and they couldn't have put some connection to a bus stop on the top of the overpass?).
And it seems to crawl from Scarborough Centre to McCowan - at least on the rare occasion I travel to the end of the line.
But the technology itself isn't slower than a subway train.
And it seems to crawl from Scarborough Centre to McCowan - at least on the rare occasion I travel to the end of the line.
But the technology itself isn't slower than a subway train.
GTS
Active Member
I voted for the Crosstown Sheppard LRT choice. The Sheppard Subway would be alright but I think a crosstown Sheppard LRT route would benefit much more people then the proposed subway extension would. This Crosstown LRT route would have many intermodal stations- Scarborough Town Centre with its future LRT, Yonge/Sheppard Subway Station and Downsview Sation; it might also hook up (if they get funding) the Don Mills LRT, the Sheppard LRT and the Finch eastward extension of that funded LRT from Yonge/Finch down to the Don Mills Station on Sheppard and the proposed Jane St. LRT if lands funding. This crosstown route has the possibility of being a really important piece of infrastructure if it had so many transit connections.
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lafard
Active Member
The LRT is the best option, no doubt. Providing silver-plated service to many rather than gold-plated service to a few. The accusations of "transfer city" are ironic as the subway does not reduce transfers except for a very selected, relatively unimportant travel pattern carrying no more than about 800 pphpd, and 200 offpeak.
The Sheppard subway proposals simply don't reach far enough to be truly beneficial, a line that runs from Dufferin to Kennedy is not that useful and less beneficial if you're more than a km east or west of the proposed termini.
A true northern crosstown route, particularly if coupled with the Scarborough-Malvern LRT, SLRT, and maybe a direct spur to STC, and a north-south connector in the west end (not necesssarily Jane, but possibly Islington or Kipling) provides a true network backbone serving much of the city.
The Sheppard subway proposals simply don't reach far enough to be truly beneficial, a line that runs from Dufferin to Kennedy is not that useful and less beneficial if you're more than a km east or west of the proposed termini.
A true northern crosstown route, particularly if coupled with the Scarborough-Malvern LRT, SLRT, and maybe a direct spur to STC, and a north-south connector in the west end (not necesssarily Jane, but possibly Islington or Kipling) provides a true network backbone serving much of the city.
sixrings
Senior Member
I assume that this Poll began out of the idea that someone (no names) thought that if we conducted a Poll vs the two technologys that SUBWAY would EASILY WIN (Similar numeric victory to the landslide Victory Eglinton LRT won VS Sheppard Subway). However after almost 50 votes we are almost divided right in half. AGREED SILVER technology to MORE people is better then GOLD technology to a FEW.