U of T research identifies three "cities" within Toronto

[DarnDirtyApe]

Other than family class immigration, our system is actually setup to attract high quality immigrants. There's a heavy weighting on education and professional work experience.

Of course, once those immigrants get to Canada, they find out that Canadian authorities are terrible at accepting foreign qualifications. They also find out that Canadian employers are even worse. Most have zero clue about how to evaluate foreign work experience, and most will discount it completely.

Most of my relatives who are professionals have been dissuaded from migrating to Canada, largely because of the challenges my parents had with their qualifications. Australia, the UK, New Zealand and the USA are leagues better for foreign professionals.

Do they speak English properly? My experience (as someone who has done many interviews over the last several years) is that language is the biggest barrier, followed by cultural differences. Immigrants who can communicate well in English without a strong accent have no trouble getting hired. In my case it helps that the technical qualifications (investment related) are the same around the world but we won't hire people if it's a struggle to communicate with them, because they won't be able to communicate with clients or other coworkers elsewhere in the world.

Our skilled immigration is such a mess it's hard to know where to begin, aside from stopping the government from trying to guess what will be in demand. In truth, I suspect there are few types of skilled work that are actually in shortage in Canada, so no amount of tweaking the program will help things. For the most part we just don't need these people at all and we'd almost be better off being honest that we just want people to do low wage McJobs because that's the reality.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Our skilled immigration is such a mess it's hard to know where to begin, aside from stopping the government from trying to guess what will be in demand. In truth, I suspect there are few types of skilled work that are actually in shortage in Canada, so no amount of tweaking the program will help things. For the most part we just don't need these people at all and we'd almost be better off being honest that we just want people to do low wage McJobs because that's the reality.

Not being a labour market expert I can't speak to that, but perhaps the core of the issue isn't skilled workers doing low-skilled jobs, but how a lot of the low-skilled jobs are no longer providing anything but poverty level existence with not the slightest hint of job security, while social benefits are being reduced and the essentials of life are moving out of reach?

AoD

 

[kEiThZ]

Do they speak English properly? My experience (as someone who has done many interviews over the last several years) is that language is the biggest barrier, followed by cultural differences. Immigrants who can communicate well in English without a strong accent have no trouble getting hired. In my case it helps that the technical qualifications (investment related) are the same around the world but we won't hire people if it's a struggle to communicate with them, because they won't be able to communicate with clients or other coworkers elsewhere in the world.

Our skilled immigration is such a mess it's hard to know where to begin, aside from stopping the government from trying to guess what will be in demand. In truth, I suspect there are few types of skilled work that are actually in shortage in Canada, so no amount of tweaking the program will help things. For the most part we just don't need these people at all and we'd almost be better off being honest that we just want people to do low wage McJobs because that's the reality.

My entire extended family was raised speaking English at home and with convent schools in India. I daresay that my mother's grasp of the English language might be better than many native-born Canadians. Other than slight accents, communication isn't the issue. Yet, accents shouldn't be much of an issue, but know they still are in Canada.

It's not a matter of the system being a mess. Canada is simply less friendly to immigrants than most Canadians would like to believe. You don't get the blatant street racism of Australia or the UK. But you don't get the job opportunities or professional recognition of those countries either. Toronto is also particularly bad for professional migrants. At least in Alberta, desperation drives some hiring. In Toronto, companies play off new grads and immigrants to pay both less.

Most of my family also laughs about this whole "Canadian experience" gambit. They have careers in finance, engineering, accounting and medicine with international experience substantially more demanding than anything faced in Canada. But would struggle getting anything beyond entry to mid level work. It's really just a line to justify lower wages or exclusion.

Family class migrants can provide lower wage workers for menial jobs. I do agree that the system shouldn't bother much with trying to attract professional migrants. Just make the system open enough for any professional to move here if he/she gets a job. But no point giving immigration without jobs.

 

[kEiThZ]

Not being a labour market expert I can't speak to that, but perhaps the core of the issue isn't skilled workers doing low-skilled jobs, but how a lot of the low-skilled jobs are no longer providing anything but poverty level existence with not the slightest hint of job security, while social benefits are being reduced and the essentials of life are moving out of reach?

AoD

Very true. The new service economy was supposed to create all sorts of well paid service jobs. Instead, we get professional students who double as professional baristas.

Sure, we can pay higher minimum wages. But I'm not sure this won't simply end up forcing companies to move jobs elsewhere, while costs of essentials rises more.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

Very true. The new service economy was supposed to create all sorts of well paid service jobs. Instead, we get professional students who double as professional baristas.

It's because there are too many people fighting for these jobs, thanks to technological change (higher productivity) and immigration (more supply of low skilled workers). We could improve the situation by accepting fewer immigrants, but then businesses and consumers would complain when the price of a Tim's coffee doubled. Most people benefit from having a permanent underclass willing to work for peanuts...

Keep in mind that our overall job market is really not in great shape, so most job openings have many applicants. With employers able to pick and choose, is it any surprise that they're more likely to hire those who are the most qualified? Canadian experience, native english speakers, same cultural norms, etc. If you can get someone with a PhD to make lattes, why would you take a chance on a recent immigrant?

 

[TrickyRicky]

On the other hand almost every business owner I know can't find people to do work, particular in the trades. Potential employees are either too good (In which case they would just start their own business), don't want to work, or want high compensation for poor performance. Boomer are retiring in droves all around me and no one is replacing them or their businesses. There may be a shortage of well paying jobs with benefits out there but there is no shortage I can see of work to be done.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

On the other hand almost every business owner I know can't find people to do work, particular in the trades. Potential employees are either too good (In which case they would just start their own business), don't want to work, or want high compensation for poor performance. Boomer are retiring in droves all around me and no one is replacing them or their businesses. There may be a shortage of well paying jobs with benefits out there but there is no shortage I can see of work to be done.

It's not exactly easy to become a licensed journeyman in a trade - you have to find a sponsor, join the college of trades, take classes, and work for up to 5 years before you can work on your own. Also, most trades are actually intellectually challenging relative to other jobs, and require good communication skills for dealing with customers and other workers. You can't exactly take a taxi driver and expect to turn him into an electrician...