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TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

raquel:

Well, our mayor had a one year window to engage in P3 schemes with the same funding mechanisms - to no avail. And yes, let's look at Canada Line and how it's scaled, the platforms are half the length of the Eglinton LRT ones. Elevated subways - really? BTW, one would have more credibility sticking to the issue instead of labelling others - like thus choice quotes from said blog:

Unwashed Minority Masses Roar in Toronto
Posted on March 19, 2012

When the Toronto Taxpayer’s Federation hosted a town hall in Scarborough about the debate between LRT and subway transit, hundreds turned out and overwhelmingly demanded subways rather than LRT. Many in that crowd questioned why downtown Toronto and North York get subway lines, while they have to settle for lumbering streetcars (LRT).

Toronto Star columnists scoffed at these unwashed masses, paternalistically suggesting they have been bamboozled by Mayor Rob Ford and his minions. ‘Desperately deceived’, proclaimed his majesty Royson James !

The population of Scarborough, over 600,000 with a 3000/square km density, while not as high as downtown, certainly justifies subway transit. North York, with similar population and density, has portions of three subway lines running though it. Downtown Toronto has parts of the Yonge, University and Bloor subway lline. Why should Scarborough residents be deprived?

The population of Scarborough, over 600,000 with a 3000/square km density, while not as high as downtown, certainly justifies subway transit. North York, with similar population and density, has portions of three subway lines running though it. Downtown Toronto has parts of the Yonge, University and Bloor subway lline. Why should Scarborough residents be deprived?

The answer lies partially in demographics and race. Downtown Toronto brims with predominantly white latte sipping ‘hipsters’. Bucolic hoods like Leslieville and ‘The Annex’ have been annexed by fancy white elites who worship Margaret Atwood and the CBC. They proclaim their love of diversity and multiculturalism… as long as it resides elsewhere.

North York, or at least the wealthy (read white) portions, were gifted the useless Sheppherd stub-line by ex Mayor and prosperous North Yorker Mel Lastman. Rob Ford is desperately trying to fix this mistake by extending it to under served Scarborough.

Now the latte liberals of downtown Toronto suggest that targeted taxes or punitive tolls should be used to construct just one subway line to Scarborough. While their downtown hoods and upscale North York got subways without any such ‘revenue tools’.

They refuse to consider real revenue tools which violate their ridiculous ideological biases.. such as allowing the private sector to build a casino in central Scarborough and finance a subway extension to it.

For these people, their lefty ideas and biases far outweigh any concern for the transportation needs of hard working minorities.

These people are never short on excuses or faulty reasoning. They would tell you that construction costs were lower in the past. They will explain that upper levels of government have sometimes been of the conservative variety and unwilling to fund municipal projects.

From 2003 to 2010, David Miller was mayor, and during this timeframe Liberal soulmate McGuinty was also in power. Half of that time, the federal Liberals had a majority. The left controlled all levels of govt and had ample opportunity to fund projects in Scarborough, but they did nothing.

Wealthy white denizens of downtown Toronto never tire of telling everyone how ‘multi cultural’ they are, how they respect diverse and tolerant lifestyles. But of course it is easy to crow about diversity, as long as they get nice subways while relegating minorities in Scarborough to rattletrap forty year old streetcars.

In reality, the true friends of hard working minorities are folks like Rob Ford.

Seriously, as if our subways are "whites only". Then again, it would seem that the "group" has some skeletons in the closet:

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...siddiqui-the-people-behind-the-prayer-protest
http://www.whoisronbanerjee.com/

AoD

EDIT: Posted the blog post in its' entirety, in case it disappears.
 
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Rob Ford: Refuses to take advice from panel, takes advice from panel. As much as I would like to see him finally put forward a realistic plan to fund Sheppard, there's simply no time left to put forward a solid plan due to his flip-flopping.

Ford reportedly considering property tax hike to pay for Sheppard subway
03/19/2012 | CityNews.ca staff

Mayor Rob Ford is reportedly considering hiking property taxes by one per cent in order to pay for his promised Sheppard subway extension.

As recently as last week, Ford promised he wouldn’t raise taxes to tunnel underground on Sheppard and insists he has $1 billion in funding and the city could start building a stop immediately.

Ford wants to build the Sheppard subway out incrementally from Don Mills — first to Victoria Park and eventually out to the Scarborough Town Centre. He campaigned on a promise to expand underground transit.

Sources close to the mayor told CityNews on Monday that he’s considering the property tax hike ahead of a key transit vote on Wednesday. Ford reportedly hasn’t yet decided how he’ll move forward to save his subway plan.

The mayor’s vision contradicts the findings of a blue-ribbon transit panel that last week endorsed light-rail transit (LRT) as the best option for Sheppard Avenue. Council will vote on how to move forward on Sheppard on Wednesday.

Panel chair Eric Miller, who’s a professor and director of University of Toronto's Cities Centre, said LRT delivers the best “bang for the buck.â€

The transit report did note that a one per cent property tax increase over seven years would pay for the subway extension.

On Friday, Ford said he refuses to listen to the findings of a “biased panel.†The mayor’s point man on subways, Gordon Chong, was the only member of the panel who disagreed with the findings.

The province has promised Toronto $8.4 billion in funding for new transit projects.

Aside from the Sheppard subway extension, Ford also wants the Eglinton crosstown line to run completely underground. Last month, council voted to have the line run at surface level between Laird Drive and Kennedy station.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityn...-property-tax-hike-to-pay-for-sheppard-subway
 
He's just stalling for time - the guy has zero credibility on the file. Ditch him, have TTC come up with a multi-year transit expansion plan that isn't fixated about Sheppard per se and then go to the voters for various measures to fund the grand plan.

AoD
 
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!?!? No problem. Not sure what issue here is.

There have been plenty of posts on the subject in the last year. Particularly in the http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/4952-GO-Transit-Service-thread-(including-extensions) thread. Look for the posts by vegeta_skyline

Hope that helps!
I have no interest in looking at another threat.. Obviously it was never posted on this threat which is way i asked if the guy was skidding on the reason for the lack of all day service with GO. It was your smartaleck come back to my statement that was the issue
 
So I was at that transit "meeting" at the Scarborough Civic centre tonight, my curiosity got the better of me but I was only able to put up with the first half hour before I left.

Right away at the entrance there was a table with people feeding misinformation, most noteworthy was some nonsense about the Eglinton LRT tunnel being too small for subway cars and they will need to rip up the entire underground section including stations in 20 years when they realize they made a mistake. Someone was holding up a sign with the mandatory "No St Clair Disaster" sign

Chong held up a half inch stack of papers claiming this was all the studies done on LRT over the past 20 years, and of course he repeated that BS about LRT being significantly more expensive in the long term and subways are good for 150 years.

Oh and apparently subways are actually free since they count as an asset on the city's books, and once built will start making money for the city and the economy.

The demographics were mainly older people, most were just politically motivated by their views and applauded whenever one of those nonsense subway talking points were mentioned, and are oblivious to the actual facts.

And of course there is an actual plan to pay for the Sheppard subway, despite the fact that it is actually free as mentioned above, don't let the lefties fool you.
 
raquel:

Well, our mayor had a one year window to engage in P3 schemes with the same funding mechanisms - to no avail. And yes, let's look at Canada Line and how it's scaled, the platforms are half the length of the Eglinton LRT ones. Elevated subways - really?

Does the length of the platform really matter at all. Vancouver had a target ridership and that was met. If ridership is higher, they will have problems. Similarly, Eglinton (through Scarborough) has a target ridership and it too will probably have problems it the ridership exceeds expectations.

Vancouver may not have been conservative in their estimates - time will tell how the Eglinton estimates are.

I am not sure how a P3 might be done for Sheppard, but it is still possible to have a P3 with enough restrictions to get what you want built. You do not have to throw the gates wide open to go P3. Why is "elevated" such a bad word that it is dismissed without even a thought. It is just as valid as underground or median? Look at the benefits and costs and then decide.
 
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200ish

Jerry Agar was moderating, Doug Ford showed up, a few jabs at Karen Stintz were made. A few cops were there as well.
 
200ish
a few jabs at Karen Stintz were made. A few cops were there as well.

Not so surprising that she declined to attend this time around. No one should have to put up with a group of circus monkeys torching them with nothing but insults.

And to that blog post posted above, what do they have to say about the ethnic neighbourhoods downtown (or more precisely, Old Toronto)?
 
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The ramblings from Unwashed Minority Masses Roar is ridiculous. He says "the population of Scarborough, over 600,000 with a 3000/square km density, while not as high as downtown..."

Thats right because Toronto has a pop of 738,775 and land area of 97k, is 7616/square km density. Thats why downtown has 3 subways going through it. And this stuff about whites vs everyone else - typical Ford like with his scarborough vs downtown. Thats how victims stay victims - its them vs everyone else
 
He's just stalling for time - the guy has zero credibility on the file. Ditch him, have TTC come up with a multi-year transit expansion plan that isn't fixated about Sheppard per se and then go to the voters for various measures to fund the grand plan.

AoD
Seems to me the only chance of that happening is if the group in Council currently attempting to ditch Ford (Mihevic's gang) loses on Wednesday.
 
BurlOak:

With the targets Sheppard has, any private sector interested in making a dime would be insane to pursue a heavy rail scheme that's a straight up extension of the Sheppard line. You put enough restrictions on a P3 scheme and the price will rise accordingly. And yes platform lengths matter a lot when you are building stations - they are cost prohibitive to expand - here is a reason why the expansions at Sheppard are roughed in.

Voltz:

I meant it more as a way forward for further transit expansion, which simply cannot count on provincial, much less federal support.

AoD
 
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The ramblings from Unwashed Minority Masses Roar is ridiculous. He says "the population of Scarborough, over 600,000 with a 3000/square km density, while not as high as downtown..."

Thats right because Toronto has a pop of 738,775 and land area of 97k, is 7616/square km density. Thats why downtown has 3 subways going through it. And this stuff about whites vs everyone else - typical Ford like with his scarborough vs downtown. Thats how victims stay victims - its them vs everyone else

Did anybody else click through the links for background on Ron Banerjee? Personally, I believe in free speech and am against hate-crime laws because they can be used to stifle legimate public debate. But as long as such laws are on the books and being enforced against some people, they ought to be enforced unformly, and I cannot imagine how Banerjee* has gotten away from them unscathed. How anyone with mainstream political ambitions would ever allow Banerjee* within shouting distance is a mystery.

*if the quotes attributed to him are true
 
BurlOak:

With the targets Sheppard has, any private sector interested in making a dime would be insane to pursue a heavy rail scheme that's a straight up extension of the Sheppard line. You put enough restrictions on a P3 scheme and the will rise accordingly. And yes platform lengths matter a lot when you are building stations - they are cost prohibitive to expand - here is a reason why the expansions at Sheppard are roughed in.
AoD

Is there really any chance that a private sector partner would take farebox risk on any public transit project? The only way to bring in private sector partners will be through availability payments, which means paying the private sector partner a built-in profit of 10-20% over cost. Any private sector partner who would take farebox risk on the Sheppard line would (a) be nuts and (b) have been immediately held up as proof that unicorns exist by the retired suburban dentist and Tony Clement's ex-chief of staff.
 

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