TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[crs1026]

No kidding. It drives me absolutely up the wall that TTC keep on ranting about escalator safety when they have crowded platforms, stuffed trains and other far more urgent matters that they chose to say nothing about.

TTC's interest in stairwells may seem exaggerated, but in those key locations it is a valid issue.

This may sound extreme, but I stand by it.....the impetus that will seal the deal for DRL will be when there are repeated fatalities due to crowding at Yonge and St George. In our usual way, we will bumble along debating should-we/shouldn't we, until that reality plays out before our eyes. And then there will be a crisis to solve. Sad, but I believe, true.

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

TTC's interest in stairwells may seem exaggerated, but in those key locations it is a valid issue.

This may sound extreme, but I stand by it.....the impetus that will seal the deal for DRL will be when there are repeated fatalities due to crowding at Yonge and St George. In our usual way, we will bumble along debating should-we/shouldn't we, until that reality plays out before our eyes. And then there will be a crisis to solve. Sad, but I believe, true.

- Paul

If they are truly interested in safety, they and their bosses would have gotten their a**es with real changes instead of quoting studies and hope for the best for behaviour modification in in-grained use patterns. This is not a new problem - everyone knew for years that there are circulation issues with Y+B. Let's be frank - the org can't manage traffic flow worth ***t (just look at chaos each and every single time there is a delay or stoppage). In the meantime, council just decided to pop a cool 3+B somewhere else.

AoD

 

[muller877]

It depends how you measure 'fastest'. 'Throughput' is what matters - ie number of people exiting the stairwell per second.
- Paul

Why are we are trying to compare ourselves to the tube and Holborn station. Holborn is the 14th busiest station on the tube and there are 60,000 people a day leaving the station (note they do not consider transfers as part of their station count). That's 120,000 entering and exiting the station. The same as Sheppard-Yonge INCLUDING TRANSFERS.

This is equivalent to the crowds at St George going up the stairs from the Bloor Line to the Yonge line. We only have 1 group of stairs busier than Holborn's escalators (the Bloor platform on the Yonge Line). And this is such a short set of stairs compared to Holborn.

We have lots of capacity on the escalators compared to London. London cares about throughput for the crowds. And throughput is not a concern for the TTC (other than at Bloor-Yonge). So the TTC is trying to enforce their nanny state by comparing apples to oranges.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

So the TTC is trying to enforce their nanny state by comparing apples to oranges.

The thing is - TTC couldn't even enforce the nanny state effectively. This is more like "you may walk if you want to, but we won't encourage it" status quo, sans the sign - so that you can't shout at anyone for standing on the walk side. And then coming out to say it.

AoD

 

[crs1026]

If they are truly interested in safety, they and their bosses would have gotten their a**es with real changes instead of quoting studies and hope for the best for behaviour modification in in-grained use patterns. This is not a new problem - everyone knew for years that the are circulation issues with Y+B. Let's be frank - the org can't manage traffic flow worth ***t (just look at chaos each and every single time there is a delay or stoppage). In the meantime, council just decided to pop a cool 3+B somewhere else.
AoD

Yeah, government loves to bury its head in the sand on issues. That's why we have a "encourage seniors to live at home" program (translation: no body in government wants to raise taxes to build retirement homes) and a "so many health choices" program (translation: nobody in government wants to raise taxes to provide an adequate supply of General Practicioners). Soon, as more schools are closed, we will be told that "riding a school bus is a healthy place for social development and every child needs it". (yeah, I'm grumpy this morning, but I swear.....)

Why are we are trying to compare ourselves to the tube and Holborn station. Holborn is the 14th busiest station on the tube and there are 60,000 people a day leaving the station (note they do not consider transfers as part of their station count). That's 120,000 entering and exiting the station.

Well, we're talking Londoners here. If anyone will keep calm, politely queue up, and muddle through, it's them. Toronto not so much. The worst harassment I ever experienced on a transit system was in Paris, when I walked on the left at less than full speedwalking speed because my carryon suitcase was slowing me down. For that matter, watch people get off the GO train at Oshawa in the evening. I prefer to let people walk on by, but there are extremes.

- Paul

 

[LNahid2000]

If anyone watches Channel 5's "The Tube", they did an episode about the escalator experiment at Holborn Station, and it was a complete failure since most people were just pissed off that they had to stand.

 

[amnesiajune]

If anyone watches Channel 5's "The Tube", they did an episode about the escalator experiment at Holborn Station, and it was a complete failure since most people were just pissed off that they had to stand.

Depends on how you define failure. They expected that it would increase the escalators' capacity by 30% and it did increase capacity by exactly that much.

 

[BurlOak]

Depending on the length of the escalator, it's actually faster to have everyone on the escalator stand, than dedicating 50% of the escalator to walking. It was only several months ago that the London Underground launched a trial of having all customers stand on escalators at rush hour, to improve throughput.

I'm far from an international traveler, but I did go to Japan where they strongly obey the walk left, stand right rule (expect its backwards there).
It appears the problem was that too many people wanted to stand.
Thus, when very busy, often the queue for the standing side was still there when the next train arrived, even though the walking side had long cleared up.
Maybe the rule should be walk left unless its so busy that you can stand on left, but try to move over or walk slowly if a walker arrives. If you are unable to walk at all, stick to the right side.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'm far from an international traveler, but I did go to Japan where they strongly obey the walk left, stand right rule (expect its backwards there).
It appears the problem was that too many people wanted to stand.
Thus, when very busy, often the queue for the standing side was still there when the next train arrived, even though the walking side had long cleared up.
Maybe the rule should be walk left unless its so busy that you can stand on left, but try to move over or walk slowly if a walker arrives. If you are unable to walk at all, stick to the right side.

Another problem is that people may walk initially, slowing down and stop when it gets closer to the top. The other thing is few people look behind them to see if anyone is wanting to walk, and if they don't do that, people behind loath to tell them to move.

AoD

 

[LNahid2000]

Depends on how you define failure. They expected that it would increase the escalators' capacity by 30% and it did increase capacity by exactly that much.

If no one is going to co-operate (as shown on "The Tube"), capacity isn't going to increase by 30%.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Another problem is that people may walk initially, slowing down and stop when it gets closer to the top. The other thing is few people look behind them to see if anyone is wanting to walk, and if they don't do that, people behind loath to tell them to move.

AoD

Yup plus you also have a lot of people where english is a second language here or they can't read it. If we put up signs for walk left stand right on every escalator there would be so many signs there wouldn't be space on the escalator for them.

 

[LNahid2000]

Yup plus you also have a lot of people where english is a second language here or they can't read it. If we put up signs for walk left stand right on every escalator there would be so many signs there wouldn't be space on the escalator for them.

This is why the TTC should use pictographs for signs in addition to English, which they're very bad at doing. I can't read Japanese but this sign is pretty clear to me:

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

This is why the TTC should use pictographs for signs in addition to English, which they're very bad at doing. I can't read Japanese but this sign is pretty clear to me:

That might help but as they have said they don't want to encourage people to walk on escalators because of the potential trip hazard. Plus the pictographs signs are relatively new to the Ontario building code When I look at the new exit signs I think of someone feeling in a run fro a door and not an exit.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Escalator horror!

 

[DSC]

Another idea for the TTC? (Great headline too!)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/31/authorities-install-penis-seat-mexican-public-transport/