TTC: Fare system loopholes

[the lemur]

No they wouldn't. I can't think of any reason why a Bathurst station transfer would be refused on any of the routes that the Spadina streetcar intersects (assuming it wasn't a very old transfer).

Why would you think they would reject it? I've done far stranger things, to make the quickest journey between point A and point B, without any complaint.

If you go to the TTC Trip Planner, it will even tell you to do this for some trips. For example, Bathurst Station to College and Major if you tell it you don't want to walk more than 250 metres. The second option (for the current time) is to take the subway to Spadina, the 510 to College, and a 506 to College/Major, with 2 transfers. So it's certainly a valid TTC trip with 2 transfers!

Maybe I just have bad luck but I've had Bathurst transfers refused in that scenario. A Spadina streetcar driver will not issue a transfer at Spadina because it is assumed that you would have taken one when paying your fare upstairs to get into the station. By not taking the transfer at Bathurst, I am breaking the 'must obtain transfer where fare is paid' rule; but since changing from the subway to the 510 doesn't require a paper transfer, I don't need to take one at Bathurst.

 

[GenerationW]

I've used a few loopholes myself. Like going into a store while waiting for a streetcar and using the transfer. If that's a criminal offense then....

I got "caught" for that years ago. I went across the street to use a bank machine, and a bus driver saw me crossing back to the stop. The prick refused to accept my perfectly-valid transfer because my two-minute stopover apparently was enough to invalidate my transfer. Then he took it right put of my hands.

I should have complained to head office but I guess I was too stunned at the time to think of that.

 

[ksun]

I got "caught" for that years ago. I went across the street to use a bank machine, and a bus driver saw me crossing back to the stop. The prick refused to accept my perfectly-valid transfer because my two-minute stopover apparently was enough to invalidate my transfer. Then he took it right put of my hands.

I should have complained to head office but I guess I was too stunned at the time to think of that.

while plenty of people wave a long expired transfer and enter the streetcar/subway all the time. There was one time I found that I used the wrong transfer in my pocket from many days ago after entering the subway. Most drivers/fare collectors are too lazy to check the validity of transfers.

When it comes to fare payment, we should never rely so much on human inspection. When they are tired or just feel lazy, they simply ignore what is happening.

 

[ShonTron]

I got "caught" for that years ago. I went across the street to use a bank machine, and a bus driver saw me crossing back to the stop. The prick refused to accept my perfectly-valid transfer because my two-minute stopover apparently was enough to invalidate my transfer. Then he took it right put of my hands.

I should have complained to head office but I guess I was too stunned at the time to think of that.

Ridiculous. Even if you were "technically" stopping over, the operator is supposed to let you keep the disputed transfer in case of fare dispute. It says so right on the back.

 

[ksun]

Ridiculous. Even if you were "technically" stopping over, the operator is supposed to let you keep the disputed transfer in case of fare dispute. It says so right on the back.

Honestly, not allowing such short stop over is meaningless.
I buy some fruits/grocery for example during a transfer on my way home all the time, and I don't feel guilty about it at all. Normally drivers don't care unless the time is way off. Usually even two hours won't raise their eyebrows. If a supposedly right policy is never implemented, it should be abandoned. A time based transfer makes a lot more sense.

for the first two years I was in Toronto, I never knew you should get a transfer at your departure station. I always took a transfer once I arrived at the final subway stop and switch to a streetcar using that transfer. And you know what, I never had a problem for those two years. Until I was told by a friend that's not the right way to get transfers.

Vancouver's time based transfer works great. However our bus/streetcars still don't have any automatic fare system that can recognize the issurance time of transfers.

 

[StatGeek]

The TTC does offer time-based transfers ... but only for the 512 streetcar - http://www.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Transfers/Time_based_transfers.jsp

I love the idea of time base transfers. It will obviously encourage more shopping and stopovers and helps the city and community as a whole.

There is something about St. Clair time based transfers that always confused me. If I pay my fare at the Subway station (be it St Clair or St Clair west) You walk to the west bound street car platform and you click the subway transfer and it shows up a normal looking subway transfer. Can you use that transfer to get onto a north/south bus on St. Clair a few hours later (time based), just like you can if you entered via a streetcar stop on the street and get a transfer from a driver?

 

[LNahid2000]

There is something about St. Clair time based transfers that always confused me. If I pay my fare at the Subway station (be it St Clair or St Clair west) You walk to the west bound street car platform and you click the subway transfer and it shows up a normal looking subway transfer. Can you use that transfer to get onto a north/south bus on St. Clair a few hours later (time based), just like you can if you entered via a streetcar stop on the street and get a transfer from a driver?

No, you need to exchange that transfer for a time based transfer by boarding a 512 streetcar.

 

[TheKingEast]

I got "caught" for that years ago. I went across the street to use a bank machine, and a bus driver saw me crossing back to the stop. The prick refused to accept my perfectly-valid transfer because my two-minute stopover apparently was enough to invalidate my transfer. Then he took it right put of my hands.

I should have complained to head office but I guess I was too stunned at the time to think of that.

Yea, I've had that before. I just keep my transfer and use it on the next bus. I don't see it as cheating the system at all. I still paid for the fare.

 

[Electrify]

No, you need to exchange that transfer for a time based transfer by boarding a 512 streetcar.

Since allowing a station transfer would make too much sense...

On the two hour transfer thing, the TTC's indecisiveness is just idiotic. Whenever questioned about it, they claim they cannot afford to make it system wide. Yet when asked why St. Clair gets it still, they claim it will be coming with Presto. I wonder if a class action lawsuit from everyone who has had to pay extra fares or purchase overpriced passes to cover stopovers while those in a specific corner of the city, who pay the exact same god damn fare in the exact same god damn zone, get this feature would get the TTC to figure out what their next course of action should be.

 

[nfitz]

Since allowing a station transfer would make too much sense...

On the two hour transfer thing, the TTC's indecisiveness is just idiotic. Whenever questioned about it, they claim they cannot afford to make it system wide. Yet when asked why St. Clair gets it still, they claim it will be coming with Presto. I wonder if a class action lawsuit from everyone who has had to pay extra fares or purchase overpriced passes to cover stopovers while those in a specific corner of the city, who pay the exact same god damn fare in the exact same god damn zone, get this feature would get the TTC to figure out what their next course of action should be.

TTC announced in January the St. Clair trial will end at the beginning of 2015 if time-based transfers aren't extended system wide. www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2014/January_28/Reports/Decisions/7c_Time_Based_Transfers_Update.pdf