Neil
Active Member
That sounds like a subway! stir, stir, stir
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Transit City Plan
- Thread starter 299 bloor call control.
- Start date
That sounds like a subway! stir, stir, stir
CanadianNational
Senior Member
There's a peculiar article in the Sun by Don Peat, claiming that there's a 23-page 'pro-subway' appendix to his report that the rest of the panel doesn't want released.
It looks like something added later, rather than being part of the original Ford-commissioned Chong Report. Does anyone know who this Dr. Joanne Kennelly is, and what her relevant experience might be?
"Chong — one of the few subway advocates on the panel and the man tasked to find a way for Ford to build the Sheppard subway — said the panel is threatening to not include a 23-page appendix on the subway extension in the report.
“I told them, ‘if you don’t include it in the report, you should remove my name’,” Chong told the Toronto Sun Wednesday. “If they do decide to cut it, I’m going to issue it anyway ...The panel generally does not want this in its form.”
Chong said the section of the report poised to be rejected was authored by Dr. Joanne Kennelly — the project manager he tapped to write his Sheppard subway report. Most of the appendix, entitled “Option B: Subway Extension”, trumpets the benefits of going with subway over LRT.
“The Sheppard Subway plan outperforms the LRT Plan in terms of economic and fiscal management,” the section states. “The Subway Plan incorporates proven project management, capital financing and technological advancements that will attract international attention and investors to Toronto. It will result in robust capital and risk pricing, detailed consideration of life-cycle costs, consistent on-time delivery schedules, contractual discipline and potential for partners to subsidize construction costs.”
It notes in the case of the Calgary LRT, five “multi-million dollar vehicles” were destroyed in collisions between 2002 and 2009, although two were later repaired.
A source close to the panel said the group at its last meeting decided against appending any materials to the report.
“They decided against doing that because they wanted the report to stand on its own,” the source said."
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/14/pro-subway-portion-may-be-cut-from-lrt-report-chong
It looks like something added later, rather than being part of the original Ford-commissioned Chong Report. Does anyone know who this Dr. Joanne Kennelly is, and what her relevant experience might be?
"Chong — one of the few subway advocates on the panel and the man tasked to find a way for Ford to build the Sheppard subway — said the panel is threatening to not include a 23-page appendix on the subway extension in the report.
“I told them, ‘if you don’t include it in the report, you should remove my name’,” Chong told the Toronto Sun Wednesday. “If they do decide to cut it, I’m going to issue it anyway ...The panel generally does not want this in its form.”
Chong said the section of the report poised to be rejected was authored by Dr. Joanne Kennelly — the project manager he tapped to write his Sheppard subway report. Most of the appendix, entitled “Option B: Subway Extension”, trumpets the benefits of going with subway over LRT.
“The Sheppard Subway plan outperforms the LRT Plan in terms of economic and fiscal management,” the section states. “The Subway Plan incorporates proven project management, capital financing and technological advancements that will attract international attention and investors to Toronto. It will result in robust capital and risk pricing, detailed consideration of life-cycle costs, consistent on-time delivery schedules, contractual discipline and potential for partners to subsidize construction costs.”
It notes in the case of the Calgary LRT, five “multi-million dollar vehicles” were destroyed in collisions between 2002 and 2009, although two were later repaired.
A source close to the panel said the group at its last meeting decided against appending any materials to the report.
“They decided against doing that because they wanted the report to stand on its own,” the source said."
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/14/pro-subway-portion-may-be-cut-from-lrt-report-chong
Paleo
Active Member
We've never lost any multi million dollar subway cars (married pairs in our case) due to accidents. Ever. For real.
andrewpmk
Senior Member
The problem with light rail is that if there is a disruption e.g. due to a car accident, the whole line must be replaced with buses. I know this is a problem with subways as well but my experience is that Toronto's existing streetcar network is much more delay-prone than subways. Buses can simply detour around a collision resulting in minimal delays.
I seriously think that on corridors where there is no funding for subways we are better off with bus rapid transit. Articulated buses and bus lanes are cheap and can be put on every busy bus route in the GTA that needs them. At a billion for Sheppard East LRT and Finch West LRT, there is no money to spend billions more on routes that badly need improvements like Finch East, not to mention others like Steeles, York Mills, Wilson, Lawrence, Victoria Park, Warden, McCowan North, Dufferin, Kipling... and overcrowded 905 routes like Hurontario, Dundas and Dixie.
I seriously think that on corridors where there is no funding for subways we are better off with bus rapid transit. Articulated buses and bus lanes are cheap and can be put on every busy bus route in the GTA that needs them. At a billion for Sheppard East LRT and Finch West LRT, there is no money to spend billions more on routes that badly need improvements like Finch East, not to mention others like Steeles, York Mills, Wilson, Lawrence, Victoria Park, Warden, McCowan North, Dufferin, Kipling... and overcrowded 905 routes like Hurontario, Dundas and Dixie.
Tulse
Senior Member
Even in the Spadina Subway accident in 1995?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Russell_Hill_subway_accident
Justin10000
Banned
Sarcasm is lost on you guys. The TTC also had T-1's severly damaged in yard accidents, and who can forget the derailment at Kennedy due to a part hanging loose from a H-Series car?
Palma
Senior Member
Sound and look like are 2 different things. To the average Toronto resident they would say look
Palma
Senior Member
First we hear Ford hiding a report that says subway is not warranted on Sheppard. Then Dr Chong hires this Dr. Joanne Kennelly and now we are hearing the reverse. What are we to believe?
Although the fact that Ford hired Chong and then Chong hired Kennelly and they both know what Ford wants to hear. “The Sheppard Subway plan outperforms the LRT Plan in terms of economic and fiscal management,” is not the same thing as Sheppard warrants the subway (or extension) based on the numbers and what is there now, what will be there in the future and the decrease or small increase in employment that NYC has provided in the past 20 years. That quote could be used anywhere, even to justify a subway on Lawrence Ave West
Voltz
Senior Member
It Sounds more like advocacy rather than results of a proper analysis, by fiscal management they are probably referencing their bogus claims of massive cost increases on St Clair, or that nonsense about cost savings with automated trains offsetting the cost premium of underground construction.
Palma
Senior Member
and its amazing that somehow the Sun got and leaked the story
Dan416
Senior Member
This move by LRTistas does not surprise me.
Paleo
Active Member
LRT Cons:
1) Subways also last for 100 years unlike LRT which needs constant replacement every few years.
2) A surface ROW will slow down emergency vehicles.
3) Will have trouble with snow.
4) Will increase congestion.
5) It's a union plot to protect jobs.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
What on earth does that mean? It sounds like "based on a few observations of LRT implementations we expect the project to be mismanaged, over budget, late, and not thought out, but miraculously if subway is chosen all of a sudden everything will be properly managed, on budget, on time, well thought out, and heck people will even show up to give it free money. The LRT will pulled by a horse, but a subway will use dilithium crystals and warp engines."
What I don't get is how any option that didn't serve STC didn't get a big downgrade in terms of marks.
In my opinion, the SELRT would be much more useful if in the 1st phase it only went as far as where it was going to connect to the SLRT, and then the rest of those funds be used to build a branch to STC. At least then it may actually get the ridership to the point where LRT is actually justified.
In my opinion, the SELRT would be much more useful if in the 1st phase it only went as far as where it was going to connect to the SLRT, and then the rest of those funds be used to build a branch to STC. At least then it may actually get the ridership to the point where LRT is actually justified.