Toronto Union Station Revitalization | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | NORR

On Friday I walked past the long "opening soon" Bagel Stop (or whatever it's called) across from Starbucks. The door was open and someone was looking around inside. Very little work had been done. The walls were still not finished and there were no fixtures. This is a very long time to build out a simple store that does nothing but slice packaged bagels and toasts them or makes a sandwich from a small selection of spreads and toppings. One wonders how long a grace period on rent they must be receiving.
 
Jonny5 said:
On Friday I walked past the long "opening soon" Bagel Stop (or whatever it's called) across from Starbucks. The door was open and someone was looking around inside. Very little work had been done. The walls were still not finished and there were no fixtures. This is a very long time to build out a simple store that does nothing but slice packaged bagels and toasts them or makes a sandwich from a small selection of spreads and toppings. One wonders how long a grace period on rent they must be receiving.
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Or maybe they looked at the foot traffic, the general state of the station post-opening and decided to jump ship?

AoD
 
Yes, I hear McCafé is closing for ten days. As the busiest (?) enterprise in the Concourse they'll lose a bunch of revenue.

Doesn't it seem a fairly long closure, especially so soon after opening?

Maybe they're gonna install hamburger grills... ;-)
 
Student99 said:
I've been walking past Uncle Tetsu the past week and each time it has had ZERO line-up.
I don't think there will be line-ups here like at Dundas- if their clientele are commuters, well, GO trains run according to schedules. Nobody's going to want to wait in line to the point where they'll miss their train.

Also:

*NEWSFLASH*
McCafe closed for renovations (yes, already).
Not sure of the extent, but it looked like they're removing the seating on the north end? It was pretty pointless considering there is ample seating in the GO concourse anyways. Not sure what might replace it.
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If it is anything like the Dundas store they will have a limited number of cakes per day. With that being the case combined with the fact that the cakes really are not that great and it not being commuter friendly I can see tetsus boarding up fairly quickly.

Commuters do not have time or a desire to wait in line for a cake. Uncle Tetsus is one of those places that struck it big and as a result tried to expand. What they fail to realise is that what they sell is a niche. People want fast food when they are catching a train or heading to a game. Nobody eats a cheesecake before heading to a Jays game, at 8 am or while heading home to dinner.
 
Jonny5 said:
On Friday I walked past the long "opening soon" Bagel Stop (or whatever it's called) across from Starbucks. The door was open and someone was looking around inside. Very little work had been done. The walls were still not finished and there were no fixtures. This is a very long time to build out a simple store that does nothing but slice packaged bagels and toasts them or makes a sandwich from a small selection of spreads and toppings. One wonders how long a grace period on rent they must be receiving.
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This does not bode well for the retail side of things. Personally I feel as though they have overpriced the rent at Union and not been too selective in terms of offerings.

There are multiple coffee shops, uncle tetsus and a bagel stop among other things but still not real fast food options.

I think they are focusing too much on the niches and not enough on what sells. Bagels are great but again, nobody has a bagel on their way to events in the area or in the evenings.

Bagels are a midday or breakfast thing. Truthfully if they don't start offering more practical options to draw people in alot of these businesses will fail.

I can see bagel world being a hit in the morning commute but thats it and I think they realized that and maybe even closed up shop.

If alot of these businesses start bailing or failing we could have another Skywalk on our hands. For the unfamiliar, I am referring to the shops that were on the south side of the Skywalk in the early-mid 90s that closed up due to low foot traffic among other things.
 
I'm seeing some jumping-to-conclusions without enough evidence to support even a small freakout. There are stores-to-be that sit unfinished in all sorts of places around town that for one reason or another don't open as quickly as those of us walking by might like. Who knows exactly why Bagel Stop is a no-go so far, but it's more likely to be that something they've ordered hasn't arrived more than it is a let's-pull-out issue. Would they be worried about not having enough walk-bys down here? I doubt it.

In regards to other food offerings, there may not be too many now, but remember, there are tons of fast food joints and restaurants coming to Union just to the north and on the floor below.

42
 
interchange42 said:
I'm seeing some jumping-to-conclusions without enough evidence to support even a small freakout. There are stores-to-be that sit unfinished in all sorts of places around town that for one reason or another don't open as quickly as those of us walking by might like. Who knows exactly why Bagel Stop is a no-go so far, but it's more likely to be that something they've ordered hasn't arrived more than it is a let's-pull-out issue. Would they be worried about not having enough walk-bys down here? I doubt it.

In regards to other food offerings, there may not be too many now, but remember, there are tons of fast food joints and restaurants coming to Union just to the north and on the floor below.

42
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I'm just basing my assumptions off what was there before.

The Bagel Stop and Pumpernickles never were very busy despite Bagel Stop being next to Second Cup and the GO ticket windows. Even Pumpernickles wasn't very busy despite being next to the Blue Route.

The reason being they are not quick and easy. Nobody has time to wait for a bagel to be made and toasted while changing trains nor do they have much desire to eat one at 530 pm. As for Pumpernickles that was a case of limited offerings. All they really offered was Pretzels, cookies and sno-cones.

My point is, if you give the people something they want they will go there and no amount of foot traffic will replace that.

I wish them all the best but as it stands right now I get the impression there is something happening behind the scenes given all the delays.
 
Richard White said:
If alot of these businesses start bailing or failing we could have another Skywalk on our hands. For the unfamiliar, I am referring to the shops that were on the south side of the Skywalk in the early-mid 90s that closed up due to low foot traffic among other things.
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From what I understand it was not the low foot traffic that killed retail in the Skywalk....retailers that went in there knew full well that there were going to be a lot of dead spots throughout the week where no one used the place (ironically, that is less the case now, particularly in winter)....but it was a trade off that they were willing to take for the 81 days (maybe more in a good year) where a very high percentage of the 50k Jays fans would walk through the space and past their place of business....what I am told killed them was that those crowds were so big that people could not stop or make their way over to their store (or in some cases see their store) and the amount of business they got from those crowds was way (and I mean WAY) too little to pay the rent.

So it was not so much the lack of foot traffic that killed them...but, when it happened....too much!
 
TOareaFan said:
From what I understand it was not the low foot traffic that killed retail in the Skywalk....retailers that went in there knew full well that there were going to be a lot of dead spots throughout the week where no one used the place (ironically, that is less the case now, particularly in winter)....but it was a trade off that they were willing to take for the 81 days (maybe more in a good year) where a very high percentage of the 50k Jays fans would walk through the space and past their place of business....what I am told killed them was that those crowds were so big that people could not stop or make their way over to their store (or in some cases see their store) and the amount of business they got from those crowds was way (and I mean WAY) too little to pay the rent.

So it was not so much the lack of foot traffic that killed them...but, when it happened....too much!
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There was still quite a bit of retail in there until the mid 1990s - I bet the 1994 MLB strike, the loss of interest in the Jays, and lack of other reasons to take the Skywalk (now you have the aquarium and CityPlace condos) did all that retail in, apart from one hanger-on. Union Station will never have those issues.
 
Union Eatery will be extremely popular for business lunches once they get York-side PATH options open. And maybe the Royal York connection, perhaps. There needs to be many more PATH connections built closer to the York side!
 
mdrejhon said:
Union Eatery will be extremely popular for business lunches once they get York-side PATH options open. And maybe the Royal York connection, perhaps. There needs to be many more PATH connections built closer to the York side!
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I'd absolutely LOVE to see it finished, but isn't the York Northwest PATH tunnel extension from Front to Wellington on indefinite hold, a.k.a. cancelled, due to a complete lack of funds? And hasn't Royal York outright refused to connect to it?
 
Megaton327 said:
I'd absolutely LOVE to see it finished, but isn't the York Northwest PATH tunnel extension from Front to Wellington on indefinite hold, a.k.a. cancelled, due to a complete lack of funds? And hasn't Royal York outright refused to connect to it?
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At this point connecting to the Royal York while useful is a bit pointless. Front Street is now set up in such a way that it is easier to cross and enter at street level. With the old passageway you ended up in the basement of the hotel having to climb stairs. Now you can easily walk up a ramp and cross front into the hotel.

I doubt they will ever reconnect the two. The maintenance costs on a tunnel would make it cosr prohibitive compared to.the alternative.
 
Silly question but will there be any access from the track level down to the new lower retail concourses? For example an elevator between the two levels, or will passengers have to walk up to the middle level and then up again to the track level?

It would seem to me that this would be a barrier to the lower retail level as a passenger would be less likely to head down if they knew they'd have to climb back up and fight through crowds on two levels.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
Silly question but will there be any access from the track level down to the new lower retail concourses? For example an elevator between the two levels, or will passengers have to walk up to the middle level and then up again to the track level?

It would seem to me that this would be a barrier to the lower retail level as a passenger would be less likely to head down if they knew they'd have to climb back up and fight through crowds on two levels.
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Except that the Subway/PATH entrance will be down at the lower level, so anyone coming underground to Union (from the northeast) will be forced to come through it.
 
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