Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[Admiral Beez]

I think this is a great idea, VIA Trains should stop there also.... this would be a relatively easy way to improve access to the airport. Sure we want a direct rail line in the future, but that will take a while to plan/build.... why not try this out in the interim? (I disagree that it should be a 'trial'... more like a temporary fix)

In Montreal there is a free 24-hour shuttle service between the Trudeau airport and the nearby Via Rail train station where travellers can catch a train to Ottawa, Kingston or anywhere else in the country. Surely we can do something similar with GO and VIA at Pearson/Malton using the infrastructure we've already got and paid for?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Cheers!

Even if were to run a rail spur directly into Pearson, you would need a people mover (or reinstatement of the bus shuttles) in order to get people in between terminals and parking regardless.

Let's just start March 1st with a free shuttle bus service from Malton GO station to the two airport terminal buildings, along with improved rail service. If Trudeau Airport can run and fund it from the VIA Station (a run of 10 km), surely we can do it 2 km?!

Let's use the infrastructure we've got before building more. I mean, we've got double decker passenger rail service right outside the airport.

 

[kEiThZ]

Let's just start March 1st with a free shuttle bus service from Malton GO station to the two airport terminal buildings. If Trudeau Airport can run and fund it from the VIA Station (a run of 10 km), surely we can do it 2 km?!

A good pitch for the GTAA. They should at least have something for those ridiculously high airport improvement fees.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Let's just start March 1st with a free shuttle bus service from Malton GO station to the two airport terminal buildings, along with improved rail service. If Trudeau Airport can run and fund it from the VIA Station (a run of 10 km), surely we can do it 2 km?!

Let's use the infrastructure we've got before building more. I mean, we've got double decker passenger rail service right outside the airport.

Good point.

 

[nfitz]

At the time they decided to go with the Austrian made Doppelmayr APM which has a max travel length of aprox 1800 meters when really they could have gone with the Canadian/German built Bombardier Innovia which has a max tavel length of 10KM.

Why would they have? GTAA needed something that would cheaply and quickly move people from one terminal to the other, with the added bonus of getting to the Viscount Road parking facility. They started working on in it in 2002, and it has now been operational since 2006. It was quite clear that it would be years before an airport link would be built, and even now the most optimistic projection is service starting in 2014 if construction starts this year - and I'd be surprised if that doesn't slip well beyond that.

By the time that anything more is needed, the existing GTAA system will have been operational for a decade. It would have been a big waste of their money to build something much more serious, that might never have been used. They've left space in the T1 station to add platforms for an airport train, or another people mover.

It's a shame that GTAA didn't run all the transit in the GTAA. We'd be building subways, LRT, and bus lanes now, rather than debating it to death.

 

[kEiThZ]

It's a shame that GTAA didn't run all the transit in the GTAA. We'd be building subways, LRT, and bus lanes now, rather than debating it to death.

And they'd come with a system improvement surcharge equal to 20% of your fare for short trips and 3% for long trips.

 

[dunkalunk]

Let's just start March 1st with a free shuttle bus service from Malton GO station to the two airport terminal buildings, along with improved rail service. If Trudeau Airport can run and fund it from the VIA Station (a run of 10 km), surely we can do it 2 km?!

Let's use the infrastructure we've got before building more. I mean, we've got double decker passenger rail service right outside the airport.

Or to be even more ambitious, continue that service along the 427 to Kipling. No one wants to pay to be stuck in traffic while becoming increasingly late for a flight.

On second thought, to maintain schedules these should DEFINITELY be separate services, but BOTH free which is what I was getting at.

 

[TOareaFan]

Or to be even more ambitious, continue that service along the 427 to Kipling. No one wants to pay to be stuck in traffic while becoming increasingly late for a flight.

On second thought, to maintain schedules these should DEFINITELY be separate services, but BOTH free which is what I was getting at.

I don't think a Malton shuttle should be "free" it should be a continuation of your fare on the Georgetown GO (the example I used earlier was the 6:45 pm westbound train on that line.....the train stops at Bramalea but if I have a ticket to Brampton, Mt. Pleasant or Georgetown, there are buses waiting to continue/complete my journey....I still pay as if I am going to Brampton but part of my trip is train part is bus).

If it were, simply, a free shuttle people would be driving to Malton GO, parking for free and shuttling into the airport for free.....no one would like that...not the people who would lose parking availibility at Malton and not the GTAA whow would lose parking revenue at their lots.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The only free shuttle should be from the Malton GO Station direct to the Airport Terminal, and should only be free for those who have booked flights.

Yes, that means that those ridiculous hordes of extended family that somehow need to see you on or off your flight will not get a free shuttle ride. Maybe that will cut down on the human clutter in the airport. But, that's another of my pet peeves, since...why can't your extended family say good-bye or hello off site back at your place of stay?

 

[cacruden]

Of course I have a philosophical difference here. There is always a limited pool of money to be spent on government services etc., always more to get done than can be done. Revenue raised by the government is typically done through taxes (income and sales), and usage fees (transit, licenses, etc.). The more you use general tax revenues for non-necessities - like getting you to the airport (which I consider a luxury), the less is available for necessities (education, welfare, healthcare, and partially publicly subsidized transit). Now if they want to include the cost of this operation in the taxes charged when you buy the tickets (thus raising the cost), then I am fine with that too. But NOTHING is every free - it comes at a cost - in this case at the cost of another service.

 

[dunkalunk]

Now if they want to include the cost of this operation in the taxes charged when you buy the tickets (thus raising the cost), then I am fine with that too. But NOTHING is every free - it comes at a cost - in this case at the cost of another service.

Well put. When I said free i was thinking along the lines of "free to me". The cost may be hidden in the airline ticket or train ticket or gas tax, whatever. If the up front cost is less for an airport shuttle than it is for a single person in a car, or taxi fare, people will be more inclined to take it. Charge all of the people who fly for the shuttle service and provide money from that charge to subsidize the shuttle. Of course there will be exceptions, but the net increase in ridership will hold true.

A free shuttle to the airport from a nearby train station would be ideal, however if the cost to run the shuttle is not absorbed into one of the many other costs associated with flying, there should be a fare.

And as a note, an airport shuttle from Malton is a necessary temporary solution that can and should be easily implemented. However, before the province considers fronting cash for a dedicated rail link to the airport, they should be spending money on improving intercity rail service in both frequency and time. Each incremental improvement in cost, speed, and frequency will decrease the need for short-haul flights. And of course, never at the expense of social programs such as healthcare, education, et al. Any shuttle should be funded primarily by airport revenues. (is there such a thing?)

 

[Admiral Beez]

Well put.

I disagree, as I don't even know what the heck "every free" means.

If we're proposing to spend hundreds of millions on a dedicated rail system to the airport, why not start by spending a few hundred grand to lease a couple of shuttle buses to offer a no charge service for ticket holders from Malton to the airport? The shuttles between the terminals at every airport I've used have always been free.

I'm suggesting we consider the Malton GO station as another terminal of Pearson, for shuttle purposes anyway. Of course the cost of the shuttle will be covered by the airport, province or direct rail link project backers (as part of the consumer demand trial), so it will be paid for by airport or tax revenue. However, the plane ticket holder should not have to pay an additional fee for the shuttle.

How about this then? The GO Train ticket from Union to Pearson already includes the cost of the shuttle, in the GO ticket price. Therefore there is no additional charge. Does that satisfy the group?

 

[kEiThZ]

I'd rather the airport run it and pay for it. Any shuttle run by GO will have pressure to be subsidized. Much better if the airport users are helping pay for the shuttle, and not the taxpayer.

 

[ShonTron]

And have at least something to show for its $5 increase in its "airport improvement" fee.

Than again, I see public transit as universal. I don't believe that just because transit goes to an airport, rather than anywhere else, it can't be subsidized. Should there be a double fare on the 82 Rosedale because it serves a wealthy neighbourhood? Living there's a luxury, after all.

Many airports pay for the connection from transit to their airports, so I don't see the suggestion that the GTAA shouldn't "subsidize" the service instead of GO as unreasonable either. BWI operates a free shuttle from the nearby Amtrak station to the terminals. LAX operates the free shuttle from Aviation/LAX station to the terminals. But a no-questions-asked model is probably best. After all, GO could monitor the station, severly enforce no overnight parking, much like LAMTA watches the LAX/Aviation station to make sure people using that parking lot are not using it for airport parking.

 

[dunkalunk]

The GO ticket stub from Union is the same ticket used to enter the GO bus, or a dedicated airport shuttle. This cost of the shuttle would be absorbed by whoever runs it, whether its the airport, GO, ect. The basic charge for people not holding their stub is something like $2. This is paid for at Union and other places along the line.

And personally, right now, in this economy, we shouldn't be spending hundreds of millions on a dedicated rail link but instead improving the service frequency that exists now. I don't see how taking up space in the Weston corridor for a private service airport shuttle would benefit the community at large. If it were just a proposal to increase rail capacity in anticipation for increased intercity service with a fringe benefit of a Pearson link at Woodbine or Malton, I'd be all for it. But its not.