Toronto Union Pearson Express | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | MMM Group Limited

[rbt]

5 minutes is a conservative headway that's "attainable in Toronto." Lots of double track mainline railways have headways well below five minutes.

Agreed. The document linked to by car4041 shows 19 trains in morning rush on Lake Shore, which is ~3 minute frequencies. This was actual expected service, not theoretial peak capacity.

Of course, they conveniently ignore constraints at Union Station but those seem surmountable for under $2B. For comparison, we will have spent $2B on the Georgetown corridor (grade separations, track purchase, etc.) by 2015.

 

[car4041]

Agreed. The document linked to by car4041 shows 19 trains in morning rush on Lake Shore, which is ~3 minute frequencies. This was actual expected service, not theoretial peak capacity.

But that's not 19tph all on a single track, is it? On page 4-16 of that report, it says that GO has an exclusive need for 3 tracks between Oshawa and Oakville, so I would think that those 19 inbound morning trains would be making use of two tracks?

 

[rbt]

But that's not 19tph all on a single track, is it? On page 4-16 of that report, it says that GO has an exclusive need for 3 tracks between Oshawa and Oakville, so I would think that those 19 inbound morning trains would be making use of two tracks?

A few are express trains and require a passing track at points along the way. A variation in scheduling moves that point, so yes, they claim a track along the entire length for express trains.

I made the assupmtion they did not plan to add additional express platforms, which meant that all stops would be on the local track. I don't actually see that written in the report though.

It's depressing to think that GO cannot get under 5 minute frequencies despite installing a moving block signalling system. And yet, some still want Metrolinx to take over the TTC; good luck with that.


That said, 5 minute frequencies with a 12-car double-decker GO train (electrified or not) is significantly more capacity than the Yonge line has today (nearly double). I suppose it is a reasonable 20 year goal.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

It's depressing to think that GO cannot get under 5 minute frequencies despite installing a moving block signalling system. And yet, some still want Metrolinx to take over the TTC; good luck with that.

Heavy rail isn't exactly the same thing as a subway, one that is largely sheltered from the elements. Because of the higher speeds and greater overall mass of the equipment the braking curve is far longer and the elements are another factor to be considered all of which necessitates a larger safety margin.

 

[Hipster Duck]

But that's not 19tph all on a single track, is it? On page 4-16 of that report, it says that GO has an exclusive need for 3 tracks between Oshawa and Oakville, so I would think that those 19 inbound morning trains would be making use of two tracks?

I'm not an expert on this, but there are probably heavy rail lines in North America, with FRA regulation, that have 19 tph on a single track. The 5 km long, 2 track section between Secaucus Junction and Penn station comes to mind. We would probably have to restrict freights from all but one track (maybe even making it the dedicated freight track), but I don't think this will pose too much of a problem.

 

[unimaginative2]

Heavy rail isn't exactly the same thing as a subway, one that is largely sheltered from the elements. Because of the higher speeds and greater overall mass of the equipment the braking curve is far longer and the elements are another factor to be considered all of which necessitates a larger safety margin.

Exactly. That's why real regional rail will require replacing the bilevels and locomotives with rapid-transit-style rolling stock that is suited to high-frequency urban operation.

 

[rbt]

Heavy rail isn't exactly the same thing as a subway, one that is largely sheltered from the elements. Because of the higher speeds and greater overall mass of the equipment the braking curve is far longer and the elements are another factor to be considered all of which necessitates a larger safety margin.

Yes, a larger safety margin is expected. The service described is between 6 to 10 times the safety margin of what TTC expects for the subway; and much higher than can be achieved by other cities.

I much prefer to assume that service in that report is still being constrained by ridership rather than technical capability. Union Station was out of scope for that document, so we can't blame constraints at that station.

 

[rbt]

Exactly. That's why real regional rail will require replacing the bilevels and locomotives with rapid-transit-style rolling stock that is suited to high-frequency urban operation.

I expect GO will adopt technology similar to what Sydney CityRail runs, double-decker EMU. Probably even keep the same body as GO uses today (low platform boarding) due to the larger door size and no need to modify platforms, including a costly modification to escalators and elevators.

 

[k10ery]

Chiarelli answered on this in yesterday's Question Period. Basically, all he said was that a local ARL could not be ready by 2015, and adding stations would be "very, very" expensive. This does not sound as much like "no" as did their first response.

AIR-RAIL LINK

Mr. Jonah Schein: My question is to the Premier. Last week, city council in Toronto voted 40-2 to urge the Premier to ensure that the Union-Pearson air-rail link is clean, accessible and affordable for Toronto residents. Council asked the Premier to direct Metrolinx to add more stops to the line and to integrate it with light-rail transit in our city. Council has also reiterated their support for electrification and for affordable fares.

Will the Premier respect the near-unanimous request of Toronto city council?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty: To the Minister of Transportation.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I thank the member for the question. The ARL is certainly very important transit infrastructure for the city of Toronto. We’re committed to having the air-rail link between Union Station and Pearson airport up and running by 2015, and we’re on track to meeting that goal. In particular, by adding those number of stations—if we could afford it or if the city could afford it, because somebody has got to pay for it, and it hasn’t been costed out, and the cost will be very, very significant—we would not be able to provide timely service, and we would not be ready for the Pan Am Games.

In terms of the electrification of that system, an issue which has been raised from time to time by the local member and by the federal member of Parliament, we had the opportunity, in Burlington, several days ago, to actually explain in detail to your federal member why this project is evolving the way it is and what a tremendous future it has. Particularly it will be eliminating millions of cars from our roads, and there will be an economic and environmental—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Supplementary?

Mr. Jonah Schein: Speaker, the minister should not lecture us on start-and-stop transit plans.

The Premier and the Minister of Transportation have repeatedly stated that the will of Toronto council is supreme; it must be respected when it comes to local transit decisions. So it’s very disappointing that they continue to ignore a strong and unified message from residents across the city about the air-rail link. The McGuinty government seems set on making the air-rail link an exclusive service for business elites, excluding local families who are left only with diesel pollution to breathe. Why won’t the Premier direct Metrolinx to build a link that is clean, that is affordable and accessible, and that meets the needs of both travellers and commuters?

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: As the president and CEO of Metrolinx pointed out at that very important meeting that we attended, there is a long-term plan for the ARL which includes going, eventually, to four tracks.

But he consistently asked questions about the ARL, and he doesn’t put it into any context, Mr. Speaker. The context is that in the city of Toronto, transit under construction at the present time is a Toronto-York-Spadina subway extension; the Eglinton crosstown; Union Station GO and subway stations; Pearson-Union air-rail link; GO Transit Georgetown rail corridor; York region Viva bus rapid transit; Brampton Züm bus system; Mississauga Transitway; and the rollout of Presto.

We are investing heavily in transit for the people of Toronto. We’re proud of it. It’s a good record, and we’re going to do a lot more.

Btw when the federal member asked a related question last fall, this is the complete answer he got:

Hon. Steven Fletcher (Minister of State (Transport), CPC): Mr. Speaker, this government has provided unprecedented amounts of funding for rail infrastructure throughout Canada.

If the member were really sincere about representing the people of Toronto, he would have stood and voted with this government on all our historic investments for infrastructure. Why does the member hate Toronto?

However bad Queen's Park seems at times, our federal politics is much, much worse!

 

[drum118]

April 03
I finally got around to fixing and up loading over 200 photos of the corridor from Toronto West Diamond to Weston Rd under Transit GO Transit, Georgetown/ARL Corridor.

The Federal Government sucks big time no matter who is in power when it come to rail or transit. Laughing stock around the world on transit/rail funding.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

Seriously, wtf is wrong with local politicians?? There already is a local service that stops at every station on that line. And it will provide mid day service in 2015.
Its call a GO TRAIN.

 

[nfitz]

Seriously, wtf is wrong with local politicians?? There already is a local service that stops at every station on that line. And it will provide mid day service in 2015.

Doesn't stop at most of the stations being discussed. Very infrequent - can't imagine it will be better than once every 30-minutes anytime soon.

 

[vegeta_skyline]

That's because most of the stations being discussed don't exist period. Also, the ARL service would be hard pressed to run at 30 minute frequency itself if it had to stop at all those new stations. It would be hard pressed to do so with the man power, operation budget and number of trains sets allocated for it.

 

[TOareaFan]

Seriously, wtf is wrong with local politicians?? There already is a local service that stops at every station on that line. And it will provide mid day service in 2015.
Its call a GO TRAIN.

Doesn't stop at most of the stations being discussed. Very infrequent - can't imagine it will be better than once every 30-minutes anytime soon.

That's because most of the stations being discussed don't exist period. Also, the ARL service would be hard pressed to run at 30 minute frequency itself if it had to stop at all those new stations. It would be hard pressed to do so with the man power, operation budget and number of trains sets allocated for it.

As I said elsewhere...by 2015 they will have the cabibility to run trains on this line as much as they want....if the will matches that ability and they add 2 stops (Eglinton and Liberty Village) they will have a GO line that makes 6 (not quite the 8 "overkill" but close) within Toronto.

It will have stops at Etobicoke North....Eglinton....Weston......Bloor....Liberty Village....Union. It will link well with all of the East West routes (Eglinton LRT....BD Subway....King and Queen Street Cars....and the YUS subway).

If you got the feds to kick in a bit to extend/improve/replace the people mover at the airport it could even provide airport access to lots of People in Toronto as well as people in Brampton, Georgetown, Guelph and K-W.

You will have a comfortable, relatively quick local(ish) transit line that also has major employment and enterainment ridership drivers (airport, Ex/Liberty Village, downtown) along its route.

After investing so much (finally) in this line it seems a real shame to not take full advantage of that investment.

 

[nfitz]

That's because most of the stations being discussed don't exist period. Also, the ARL service would be hard pressed to run at 30 minute frequency itself if it had to stop at all those new stations. It would be hard pressed to do so with the man power, operation budget and number of trains sets allocated for it.

Not sure why the ARL frequency is a function of the number of stations. Clearly you'd have to upgrade budget and number of trainsets.

Sure, the idea is about 10 years too late. ButI don't think you can say that GO is going to provide this kind of service. They've been pretty clear that they don't want to stop the train between Union and Bloor. And have no interest in adding a station at St. Clair.

This goes back to the bizarre decision 10-years ago to prioritize a little-used airport express train over much more used decent transit.

As I said elsewhere...by 2015 they will have the cabibility to run trains on this line as much as they want....

No they won't. They've been pretty clear that with 2 tracks for the ARL, there will only be 1 track available for GO Trains until at least 2018.