Toronto Toronto City Hall and Nathan Phillips Square | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | Perkins&Will

Items like the permanent stage, rink support building, washrooms, and Queen St. forecourt are all welcome and necessary but the little touches that one didn't expect like the Dundas Sq. style invisible water fountains, highly increased pedestrian traffic incentives on to the walkways, the green roof and many other "little things" will all help to fill the square and make it much less oppressive.
 
This reno is long long overdue. There will never be the "right time" to spend the money. It just has to get done, the sooner the better. I'm happy that our primary civic square is finally get the improvements that it so obviously needs. The money will come back in tourist dollars, special events and the new enterprises and people that a dynamic and growing city attracts.
 
MetroMan said:
Items like the permanent stage, rink support building, washrooms, and Queen St. forecourt are all welcome and necessary but the little touches that one didn't expect like the Dundas Sq. style invisible water fountains, highly increased pedestrian traffic incentives on to the walkways, the green roof and many other "little things" will all help to fill the square and make it much less oppressive.
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I've never found it to be oppressive at all. City Hall's architecture provides the inspiration, the reflecting pool and trees surrounding the square provide the natural elements, and the walkways "embrace" the square warmly. What I feel to be uninspiring is the way city staff have handled the square in routine upkeep. When I see the generic "cage" garbage containers used in every ordinary park at NPS, the chainlink fence barriers at the base of the arches, and the walkways simply closed, it strikes me as a coldly bureaucratic and unimaginative approach, without regard to the specialness of space.
 
kronkie said:
The simple statement I am trying to get through is that the city has other needs then to put 42 million into renovation of Phills square. Money during these times should be used wisely and some thought should be put into how it is going to be spent. For the people that live in the downtown core, Toronto is larger than you think. Money should be spent in other areas of the city.
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Sure, there are other areas in the city requiring investment, but you have not made a case against investing in the revitalization of NPS. Putting off addressing the needs of this space (which has been neglected for years) will probably result in an even greater cost for the future.

Since City Hall and NPS belongs to the people of Toronto (regardless of where they live in the city), I see no reason why they should not be renovated. NPS is a visible public amenity for all Torontonians and an attraction for those visiting the city. As a public place, it is a statement on who we are in Toronto. I'd prefer that this space suggest something more than civic cheapness on the part of our government and some citizens.

It's funny how people travel to other cities of the world and marvel at the public spaces found in them. Then they lament about the state of our public spaces here, all the while arguing how no investment should be made in them (not aiming this at you kronkie).
 
kronkie said:
Money should be spent in other areas of the city. I say transportation because it is the main problem the city has at the moment. If you live downtown you probably do not realise how bad traffic is in the GTA. I say get as much funding, delay any renovation projects, get a better transportation system in the city. Either new subway or new highways. Its what the city needs. I am sure they can make Phills square look fantastic with a lower amount of $ or smaller reno plans. Its all about how the city saves money. Toronto keeps asking the guv for money which it will never get. We need to take the problems into our own hands if we are to fix them.
People here seem to want the renovation because Phills square is run down. HAVE YOU SEEN THE TTC? The subways need renovation! New Trains! I can careless about what think about Phills square. The real question is what people think of Toronto when they see the OLD subways, and the holes in the walls at the stations. Really now, the money can be put to better use.
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You know... you really have no credibility in debating the needs of the city when you don't even know the name of Toronto's main civic space -- even though it's right in the title of this thread.

$42M over 3 years is a very small price to pay to get up to date on the state of repair of Nathan Phillips Square and update it to deal with the realities of its modern uses. Even more so when $16M was already set aside for repairs that must be done anyway just to keep it from falling apart.

Your argument when viewed in the context of other expenses in the city: let's stop collecting trash so we can save up just enough money to build some subways! Let's stop spending the $31M in Toronto Tourism's budget and forego the hundreds of millions of dollars that are spent in Toronto as a result of that investment...

A successful city has many different operating expenses running in parallel. You don't stop spending in all of them to focus on one priority. Besides, the $10-$15M that will be spent on this renovation this year wouldn't even pay for the environmental study for a subway extension.
 
Kronkie, I think you meant “I could not care less” although I don't know why you are so recalcitrant about your writing. Spelling matters; you can't just write wildly differently from everyone else and expect them to adapt to your eccentricities.
 
And now for something completely different...

A shot from April 7 of the eastern side of green roof in progress, taken from the north.

4516675202_9dfbd89eb3_o.jpg
 
That's great! Thanks for the pic. Hopefully it gets some good use. I'm sure we'll be seeing park benches up there which will make the new green roof for a place to contemplate the towers and the greenery at the base.
 
Thanks indeed - and the greenroof turned out way better than I dared to expect. Hope the plants establishes well though - there are instances of microclimate causing havoc with plantings in projects elsewhere.

I am actually a bit surprised by how "cheap" this project is, consider the amount we get out of it.

AoD
 
This is long overdue. City Hall is the center of the city, I'm surprised NP Square wasn't renovated sooner. Public spaces like this are always important to any city.

43M isn't a whole lot of money for Toronto, yes there are other things the 43M can go to, but it just so happens that it is going to this Square.

On the topic of public spaces, I'm so much more excited for the Union Station Renovation! But point being, roads, highways and schools will always get funding, its time for public space to get some love.

Just the way I see it :)
 
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