Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

He isn't talking about concealing the costs. He is talking about concealing the estimates prior to the tendering process which in the end reveals the true cost. You can't embezzle an estimate. The Spadina-York extension full project estimate could be public because the estimate for individual tenders for each station, tunnel contract, etc could not be reverse engineered by knowing the full project cost, and as soon as each contract has completed the tendering process the estimate and all the bids tendered would be known. It is bad bartering to let the person you are buying from know how much you are willing to spend before he makes an offer. The fact that there is a competition between bidders eliminates some of the disadvantage of tipping your hand early but perhaps better deals could be had if this information was not revealed early.
 
But don't forget that politicians have a responsibility to us, the people.

If I said "I want to build _____ in our community, but I can't tell you how much it's going to cost..." then I probably won't be in office for very long, now will I?
 
Fresh Start said:
No, I feel that the TTC is not being scrutinized enough on their spending, so why would we grant them more leeway to splurge through concealment? We need an independent auditor to go in and investigate where the money precisely is going and to have the TTC held legally accountable if cases of embezzlement are discovered. Remember TYSSE has yet to begin construction, so how can the TTC have gone through all the contingency funding already. At this rate the final total may reach $3 billion. The cost to install elevators in commercial buildings in Toronto last year was $535,106.19 and greenery/beautification around TTC properties can't be greater than a couple million at best per station. Are we paying the workers $100 per hour or what? Something just doesn't seem right.
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It start with how the tender is written as well what is supposed to be in the first place.

Seen many tenders over written to the point it costing 2 to 4 times more cost and time wise to do it in the first place.

Tenders can be written where it is skewed to the point only a few suppliers can bid on it that will come in at a high price than going on the open market.

TTC Elevators take longer to installed and come in at a higher price than the commercial field. This applies to other things that take place within TTC.

Most company's want to get in and out as fast as they can so not to have money tie up for long period of time.
 
Well this thread was buried. We must live in a city that has a lot of transit projects going on to have a subway that is under construction buried 3 pages deep.
Not big news but I saw crews setting up what seemed to be two cranes in downsview park on the east side. Big cranes. Anyone know what these would be used for? Maybe lowering the boring machines?
 
spaced said:
Well this thread was buried. We must live in a city that has a lot of transit projects going on to have a subway that is under construction buried 3 pages deep.
Not big news but I saw crews setting up what seemed to be two cranes in downsview park on the east side. Big cranes. Anyone know what these would be used for? Maybe lowering the boring machines?
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Could they be related to the condo project on the NW corner of Allen and Sheppard?
 
RedRocket191 said:
But don't forget that politicians have a responsibility to us, the people.

If I said "I want to build _____ in our community, but I can't tell you how much it's going to cost..." then I probably won't be in office for very long, now will I?
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Governments go in camera all the time when they're discussing commercial matters. It certainly wouldn't have any effect on a politican's electability. In fact, getting a better deal from contractors would likely increase a politician's electability.
 
With the talk about suicide screen doors on the subway, I must of missed it in the reports for the Spadina extension. Are they thinking about installing them as the stations are built or will they want to test them on the Yonge section first?

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I didn't see anything about platform screen doors in the station's reports. It would be advisable to put them in when constructing the station but they weren't included in the station renderings so I don't know for sure. Maybe they'll add them now that the TTC has said they will put them in if funding became available.
 
fanoftoronto said:
I didn't see anything about platform screen doors in the station's reports. It would be advisable to put them in when constructing the station but they weren't included in the station renderings so I don't know for sure. Maybe they'll add them now that the TTC has said they will put them in if funding became available.
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Safe to assume that they probably will be installed if there is room in the project budget.
 
Small update:
  • The TTC awarded a $40-million construction management services contract for the entire extension to Morrison Hershfield Limited;
  • AECOM Canada Ltd.’s contract for design and support during the construction of Highway 407 station was increased from $12 million to $19.55 million;
  • AECOM’s service contract for the Sheppard West station was increased from $8 million to $13.75 million;
  • The TTC approved an increase in Hatch Mott MacDonald’s contract for design and support during the construction of the extension’s twin tunnels from $12 million to $20 million;
  • The TTC voted to request Toronto council to approve the full extension budget in its entirety, rather than on a piecemeal basis.
 
Woodbridge_Heights said:
Could they be related to the condo project on the NW corner of Allen and Sheppard?
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Nope, this was south of that. There was signs too saying that the construction was for the extension too. I fortunately don't need to do that commute anymore so I don't know if the cranes are still there.
 
Mike in TO said:
Small update:
  • The TTC awarded a $40-million construction management services contract for the entire extension to Morrison Hershfield Limited;
  • AECOM Canada Ltd.’s contract for design and support during the construction of Highway 407 station was increased from $12 million to $19.55 million;
  • AECOM’s service contract for the Sheppard West station was increased from $8 million to $13.75 million;
  • The TTC approved an increase in Hatch Mott MacDonald’s contract for design and support during the construction of the extension’s twin tunnels from $12 million to $20 million;
  • The TTC voted to request Toronto council to approve the full extension budget in its entirety, rather than on a piecemeal basis.
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TTC gave these companies almost a total of 100 million dollars for "construction management services." Does this mean that we are paying almost 100 million dollars for these people to push paper, design and make sure that things are on time? Is there more to this service they are providing that perhaps I'm not seeing? I’m not trying to be cynical I’m just asking the question for my better understanding. Thank you.
 
eddiek said:
TTC gave these companies almost a total of 100 million dollars for "construction management services." Does this mean that we are paying almost 100 million dollars for these people to push paper, design and make sure that things are on time? Is there more to this service they are providing that perhaps I'm not seeing? I’m not trying to be cynical I’m just asking the question for my better understanding. Thank you.
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Ummm.... we pay engineers to do design work and "push paper" so that tunnels and buildings don't collapse and kill people. Is that good enough? Or would you prefer the trial and error method?
 
eddiek said:
TTC gave these companies almost a total of 100 million dollars for "construction management services." Does this mean that we are paying almost 100 million dollars for these people to push paper, design and make sure that things are on time? Is there more to this service they are providing that perhaps I'm not seeing? I’m not trying to be cynical I’m just asking the question for my better understanding. Thank you.
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These services are exactly what didn't seem to exist on St. Claire, a central authority with skin in the game to get everything done as per plan. They are learning from mistakes, but hopefully the next big project the TTC undertakes they just issue one huge contract and remove risk from themselves.
 
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