Voltz
Senior Member
This is probably one one of the most ridiculous claims you have made on this site,
Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group
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This is probably one one of the most ridiculous claims you have made on this site,
Fresh Start
Banned
Claim or mere suggestion? I'm just trying to get at the root of why the newer TTC subway stations are costing an average of $130-140 million to build. If some part of the method used can be scaled back, it conserve $$ for other things.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
I don't know. Aside from the need for larger platforms and multiple exits I don't think (and doubt) that there is a specific code that demands that stations be built in such a grandiose fashion.
I think the TTC is going for more bang for their proverbial buck (buck being the stations) here. Since the stations are what is the most visible part of the network they go absurdly out of their way on them.
Does every station need an international designer, or could only a few prime stations get said treatment?
Should we be concerned that there is barely a shovel in the ground and we've already gone over budget on station costs?
Does a grand station designed by an international designer make for a somehow better transit experience vs a plain designed station but that has had an artist and/or painter design some piece of work to be placed inside the station or become part of the station. Think of Dupont. Does the modernist design make it an enjoyable station or the flower mural.
Is it more important to spend an extra $50 million per station or to wring out an extra km of subway per every 4 stations built at a reduced cost
Voltz
Senior Member
I agree that too much money is being spent, but it is not because the TTC is at the helm of both the stations and tunnels, and having a separate agency for the stations would not save any noticeable amount of money, it might even cost more,
jwill
Active Member
Some people complain about overbuilt stations, and some people complain about the boring B-D stations. You can't both be right. Personally I'm happy to finally see a government agency prepared to spend money on beautiful things. Far too much of our built environment is ugly in this city.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
The building code specifies hall widths, platform widths, number of exits, accessibility, and ventilation... all things required to evacuate two trains at the platform quickly in an emergency and handle accessibility. The basic station box size is set in stone by those requirements and the known length of the station platform. Finch West station's layout is about as basic as it can get save for the finishes on the building which could be done away with and not impact the building code requirements. The high ceilings probably don't cost anything since the roof would support less mass by being closer to the surface.
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Merci!
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
How about an outdoor station for 407 Transitway?
edit: Takoma station, Washington DC.
edit: Takoma station, Washington DC.
Last edited:
noctis
Active Member
^ not a bad idea at all! where is that by the way?
Fresh Start
Banned
Someone should find out how much it cost to build Takoma Stn then currency adjust and inflate that to 2010 dollars, for comparison. I persoanlly would not mind to see or use daily a few more Davisville/Rosedale type stations (especially through suburbia) if that meant the money leftover could be invested into building more overall kilometres of track/subway service.
TJ O'Pootertoot
Senior Member
Or someone could figure out what the average temperature/snowfall is in Washington DC vs. Toronto.
The former rarely sees days below freezing and (I just looked it up) gets maybe 15" of snow compared to 50" + up here.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be open to seeing some kind of cost-benefit analysis but overall I don't think it's worth standing in the cold to save a few bucks. And I'm aware Rosedale is outside but there's a reason it's an exception and it's the same reason we have a domed stadium, the PATH system etc.
The former rarely sees days below freezing and (I just looked it up) gets maybe 15" of snow compared to 50" + up here.
I'm not saying I wouldn't be open to seeing some kind of cost-benefit analysis but overall I don't think it's worth standing in the cold to save a few bucks. And I'm aware Rosedale is outside but there's a reason it's an exception and it's the same reason we have a domed stadium, the PATH system etc.
khris
Senior Member
Yet Washington DC has received more snow this winter than Toronto haha.
Justin10000
Banned
Washington DC gets more than snow than Toronto on average. If you're going to look at the cost of a surface station, also look at the cost of building a bridge of the 407, and the ramps leading to the 400, and then dipping into a tunnel before Interchange Way.
junctionist
Senior Member
The answer is "definitely not", but I don't know who ever suggested that. I think Canadian firms could do most stations, but I think it's preferable to have each new station with a unique aesthetic and some artwork. A design competition might be a good idea to encourage creativity.
In the case of Dupont, both the design and the murals make it enjoyable, and enhance the experience of living in Toronto. Look at the exterior. The rounded glass entrances make the Dupont and Spadina intersection very memorable and unique in Toronto. The motif of rounded orange surfaces and elements like the rounded benches built into the wall make the spaces in the station quite unique. Also, Dupont wasn't designed by an international firm.
It's not black and white as some present it here, because the options for building stations aren't just monumental stations by international firms versus barebone stations. We need to compare the costs of building smaller stations by world class designers and the costs of larger and smaller stations with local firms. I think that there's a good compromise that can be made for stations in less prominent areas.
eddiek
New Member
The cost isn’t the design itself. It’s the manner the whole job is planned and developed.
The biggest problems are that the job gets quoted as a bare bones station in 2006, the job gets awarded and the numbers are put together for a business plan. Then the city hires these Designers who design up this wonderful contemporary looking station. The engineers then take a look the design and say that’s great but need specific criteria to build the structure and meet these codes. The contractor takes a look the new requirements for this job and say “okay†and then the job gets walked. If the Contractor saw the designs in the quoting stages the city would have real numbers to develop a proper business plan for the job. We are currently over budget and all the satiation have gone up in price.
I think it’s integral that the designers work with the engineers and the purchases together in one room so that the left hand can watch what the right is doing.
The biggest problems are that the job gets quoted as a bare bones station in 2006, the job gets awarded and the numbers are put together for a business plan. Then the city hires these Designers who design up this wonderful contemporary looking station. The engineers then take a look the design and say that’s great but need specific criteria to build the structure and meet these codes. The contractor takes a look the new requirements for this job and say “okay†and then the job gets walked. If the Contractor saw the designs in the quoting stages the city would have real numbers to develop a proper business plan for the job. We are currently over budget and all the satiation have gone up in price.
I think it’s integral that the designers work with the engineers and the purchases together in one room so that the left hand can watch what the right is doing.